- Hollie Strand has 26 years of experience in child safety and trafficking.
- Sex trafficking is often misunderstood; it involves the exchange of goods for sexual acts.
- Victims of trafficking may not see themselves as victims due to psychological manipulation.
- Grooming involves breaking down a person’s spirit to make them compliant.
- Foster care can create vulnerabilities that lead to trafficking.
- Internet safety is crucial for children to prevent exploitation.
- Parents must actively supervise their children’s online activities.
- Building a safety net of supportive adults is essential for at-risk youth.
- Foster parents can play a significant role in preventing trafficking.
- Community involvement is vital in supporting foster care and child safety.
TRANSCRIPT:
Brian Mavis (00:00.905)
Hello and welcome to the foster friendly podcast. I’m your host Brian and I’ve got my Courtney. am I’m forgetting to get to get adjectives now. So I’ve got we’re going to stop doing that. Okay. I’ve got my brilliant co-host. How about that for Courtney with me today? Yes. Yes. And Courtney, we’ve got a, I think a very interesting guest today and we’re
Courtney (00:14.274)
That’s the case. Sometimes I don’t want the adjectives.
Hollie Strand (00:18.429)
you
Courtney (00:23.075)
That’s a good one.
Brian Mavis (00:30.741)
tackling something that we’ve I don’t know that we’ve ever talked about this before and all the podcasts that we’ve done but today we have Holly Strand and Holly welcome we’re so glad you’re here thank you yeah so to our audience this is here’s here’s where this is gonna go Holly is a forensic examiner for the Pennington County Sheriff’s Office and so Pennington County is
Hollie Strand (00:44.039)
Happy to be here.
Courtney (00:45.549)
Yeah, thanks.
Brian Mavis (00:58.641)
in the southwest corner of South Dakota. And she has been assigned to the Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force. And she’s been working in this field for 26 years and has held the positions of a police officer, forensic interviewer, counselor with extensive history, providing therapy for individuals in the correctional system. So today’s
interview is going to be about those things of how kids who are in foster care are at risk for the things that Holly oversees and tries to prevent. So Holly, thank you for coming. I’m really excited. Well, excited is not the right word. I’m very interested in what we’re going to hear from you today.
Courtney (01:55.692)
Yeah. Before we get into that hard, deep topic, Holly, tell us just a little bit about yourself and your family and kind of your life today.
Hollie Strand (02:04.445)
Sure, I married my best friend and we have five kiddos. They are 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14. Yes, that I have any hair left is a miracle. Two biological, three adopted from foster care. So just have that background. Incredibly busy, just running, But that’s…
Brian Mavis (02:09.333)
Mm.
Brian Mavis (02:13.414)
wow.
Ha ha ha ha ha
Brian Mavis (02:23.316)
Okay.
Brian Mavis (02:31.413)
Yeah.
Hollie Strand (02:32.73)
I mean, when you have five kids, think that just explains everything right there, especially in that order. Yes.
Brian Mavis (02:37.737)
huh. Yes. Yeah. I have a daughter who’s similar to the kids are younger, but they’re all like five kids too. And they’re all a year apart. So, and three adopted to biological. So it’s chaos. So I do have, I can’t imagine what your life is like. Yes.
Courtney (02:39.148)
Yeah.
Courtney (02:52.618)
Yeah.
Hollie Strand (02:52.933)
It is. It is.
Hollie Strand (03:01.743)
It’s good to feel heard. Yes.
Brian Mavis (03:03.605)
Yeah, wow, yeah, you are not bored. That’s very sure. Well, yeah, I, so let’s stay there a little bit longer. I mean, that’s not a common thing that people say, hey, let’s adopt a few kids all close in age. So how did that happen for you?
Courtney (03:03.918)
Thank
Yes.
Hollie Strand (03:09.212)
No.
Hollie Strand (03:27.229)
So interesting when we had our two littles who are now 14, 15, we just figured while we were in diapers and bottles, we would foster diapers and bottles. So our youngest daughter we got when she was two adopted her when she’s four, she’s now 13. And then our two littlest, which are 10 and 11, we just got two years ago. And it was so, oh yeah, it was so bizarre. Cause it was like a,
Brian Mavis (03:37.023)
Keep going. huh. huh.
Brian Mavis (03:44.275)
Okay.
Hollie Strand (03:56.135)
we’re going to sell our house. And in the middle of it, saw these pictures of these two little guys and just thought, I don’t know. I think we’re supposed to do this. And yeah, so it would be two years ago in January. Yeah.
Brian Mavis (04:05.279)
Wow, yeah.
Brian Mavis (04:09.257)
Wow. well, God bless you. Thanks for stepping up and being brave. Yeah. Yeah. Well, today we are going to be talking about a very heavy topic and something that you’re an expert on. And so I guess there’s no.
Courtney (04:17.048)
Yeah.
Hollie Strand (04:17.113)
yes, I wish more people were. just yeah.
Hollie Strand (04:29.98)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Mavis (04:36.095)
good way to start than other just to start. let’s just lay the foundation a little bit and kind of the basics and tell our audience just in general what is considered sex trafficking. When people hear sex trafficking, they probably have a particular scenario in their head, but we’d love to hear how you define it and maybe like what you consider to be
most likely kinds of snares that you see.
Hollie Strand (05:10.237)
when you’re looking at the legal definition, it’s that exchange of goods. I mean, it can be for a ring, you know, it could be for food, but the exchange of goods for a sexual act. If they’re over the age of 18, you also have to prove fraud, force or coercion. If they’re under the age of 18, we don’t need fraud, force or coercion. And it can look any different way. There was a gal that had described it. She said that
She started out and she said, was a hotel room hoe. And I was like, you know, what does that mean? And she said, well, you you’re sold out of the room, which means they bring Johns to you. And then talked about how in the casinos, then she was a carpet hoe. And that means she could walk into the casinos and around the casinos. They had broken her down enough that she could walk through the casinos without them fearing that she would take off.
Brian Mavis (05:43.914)
Hmm.
Brian Mavis (05:51.54)
Hmm.
Hollie Strand (06:06.105)
And then she could be a strip hoe, which means she could work in the strip club or she could just walk out, walk outside. She could go with John’s and then she would come back. I think so many people have that vision of taken, you know, that they’re just that they’re taken in and that’s not necessarily the case. Most of them. and the sad part is, like when you’re doing interviews, you think that.
Brian Mavis (06:07.113)
you
Brian Mavis (06:20.659)
Yes.
Hollie Strand (06:33.817)
in their mind there’s going to be this, man, I can’t believe you came and rescued me. I’m so happy to be here. Thank you. It’s more like, why do you call me a victim? I’m not a victim. Even some girls have gone as far to say, one young lady I was talking with said, nobody put a gun to my head. Are you serious? You know, I left, I turned the tricks, I took the cash and I came back. There wasn’t a gun to my head, but negated all of the stuff that went with that. the
Brian Mavis (06:38.046)
Excuse me. Right.
Brian Mavis (06:53.685)
Yeah.
Hollie Strand (07:03.377)
the psychological just brainwashing and that breaking down of her spirit to the point where, you know, broken bones, broken fingers, broken face, all to the point where, yeah, now she comes right back.
Brian Mavis (07:06.581)
Hmm.
Courtney (07:17.122)
Yeah.
Brian Mavis (07:18.431)
Yeah, I think just you sharing some of those details is helps people understand. so that’s what it’s like. Because I think you’re you’re you’re exactly right. I I hear people like, it wouldn’t be amazing to go in and rescue these girls, mostly girls, not exclusively. And and just think like, they’re so relieved that you came in and saved the day when it’s like I said, what what’s happened to them?
their own hearts and minds has been distorted. And then, of course, there’s a lot more to it afterwards, even when a youth child is rescued. It’s the aftermath, it’s receiving them and that long healing process that’s far more difficult than the rescuing, I assume. So yeah, if you can, as we continue to go,
Hollie Strand (07:58.845)
Definitely.
Hollie Strand (08:09.831)
Definitely.
Brian Mavis (08:18.121)
would love to hear some examples that of course, whatever you feel is appropriate to share. So yeah.
Hollie Strand (08:23.943)
Sure.
Courtney (08:27.918)
Yeah, this is also interesting, Holly. So I grew up in North Dakota and they moved away from North Dakota eight years ago. And my husband and I were teaching a Sunday school class at our church probably about 15 years ago now. And the book was kind of similar to Brian’s, which we’ll get into in a little bit. But I had different topics that were related to the title of orphan care. But one of them was sex trafficking. And we are sitting in this room in North Dakota and all of these people around us kind of shut out. And we noticed this and my husband started asking questions and they were saying,
Hollie Strand (08:55.026)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (08:57.358)
They didn’t think this was an issue in our area. And they’re like, we live in small town North Dakota. This isn’t a thing. Like, why are we even talking about this topic? Do you find that? Like, do you feel like people just don’t even realize that this is happening in our own backyards, in our own neighborhoods across the United States?
Brian Mavis (08:59.775)
Mmm.
Hollie Strand (09:07.129)
yeah.
Hollie Strand (09:12.387)
Absolutely. I think it goes back to people not wanting to believe it. Our task force has assigned everything that involves child pornography, child exploitation, child solicitation, and child sex trafficking. And even in those cases, there’s people that are just, they do not want to believe that stuff happens in their community. And the idea of somebody selling another human being just is too much for people.
Brian Mavis (09:17.78)
Mm.
Hollie Strand (09:41.917)
And unfortunately, that’s where a lot of people sit. As soon as we have cases come forward and people start to see the prevalence of it, of this individual was operating for a long time. Or when we do our undercover operations and our team will put ads to sell kids or buy kids or pretend to be kids online. Regardless of where we’re at in the state, just the amount of people that respond to the ads.
Brian Mavis (10:04.149)
Hmm.
Hollie Strand (10:10.831)
And people are like, are you serious? This is South Dakota. Absolutely. And, I remember one case, we were, it was during one of the operations and it was a guy that wasn’t here for the Sturgis motorcycle rally. He was just coming through town and, had gone into one of the ads and wanted to purchase two young girls. And also I could think is if you’re coming to Rapid city, you’ve never been here before and you go onto these sites that are there and you.
Brian Mavis (10:11.273)
my.
Hollie Strand (10:40.253)
Meet up with who you believe is a John how many other small towns have you gone to? small cities and and been successful about just driving someplace because he worked he worked on a cruise so he was just going basically from site to site and Not a big issue. It just kind of coming into a town. He’s never been in and felt comfortable enough and Just that question of like how many times have you done this before in those small towns that you’re talking about North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming?
Brian Mavis (10:45.523)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
you
Brian Mavis (10:55.551)
Yeah.
Hollie Strand (11:08.839)
Places that you don’t think compared to New York, Chicago, LA, San Antonio.
Brian Mavis (11:15.945)
Yeah. So yeah, curious when how do how do the victims I mean, how does that even happen? How do these predators find find these young again? I keep saying women usually, but I know it’s more than that. But how do their predators find their victims and how do they groom them? How’s that all work?
Hollie Strand (11:45.309)
Sure. I remember going to a training and the FBI had sat down with this guy that was a pimp, a trafficker. And one of the questions that they asked was like, how do you select and how do you pick? And his response was very crass, but he said, I can make anybody a hole. He’s like, I can make your mom a hole. He said, if you break down somebody, you rape them a bunch of…
Brian Mavis (11:58.422)
Mm-hmm.
Hollie Strand (12:12.175)
in front of a bunch of people, you videotape it. He was basically talking about breaking the moral spirit within a person to break them down to the point where they have nothing and they’re willing to do anything because you’re the only thing that they have left. And so he’s just talking about this methodical kind of systematic method of breaking people down. But so he said, now, if you were to get somebody who has
Brian Mavis (12:20.506)
wow.
Brian Mavis (12:33.535)
So evil.
Hollie Strand (12:41.007)
a tight family connection, right? They’re loved, they’re wanted, people are looking for them. That is a whole lot harder to break them down because they know that they have family out there. They know they have people looking for them. They know that they are wanted and valued. Compare that to, and he said, a runaway girl whose family’s not even looking for her. She doesn’t have food.
Brian Mavis (12:50.045)
Okay.
Brian Mavis (13:02.389)
Mm-hmm.
Hollie Strand (13:05.659)
She doesn’t have place to live. And you show up and you buy her McDonald’s, you buy her something, you get her high, you give her cigarettes, you get her some clothes at Goodwill. And guess what? You just bought her loyalty. And then when he turns around and says something like, you know, I can’t pay for the hotel room tonight. Could you help me out? I would never lose respect for you. I would never ever lose respect for you. She’s like, absolutely. And then what happens? They do it over and over. And then again,
Brian Mavis (13:33.269)
Mm-hmm.
Hollie Strand (13:34.385)
There’s this flip in the switch of if my family found out that I did this, they wouldn’t love me anymore. But here’s this guy that I do this and he still tells me he loves me afterwards. And so, you know, it’s frustrating because people will say, why is it that when we bring girls in, you know, and this is nationwide, when people are, you know, victim advocates are talking, why are they so protective?
Brian Mavis (13:40.585)
Hmm.
Brian Mavis (13:46.142)
Hmm
Hollie Strand (14:02.469)
of these traffickers. Why are they so protective? Because they consider them mentors, they consider them boyfriends, they consider them rescuers. Like my family didn’t come get me off the street, but this guy did. I don’t like doing this stuff, but like he’s the only guy I have and he takes care of me. So it’s this, it’s psychologically twisted. And then when you take that a step further, when it comes to foster care.
Brian Mavis (14:03.861)
Mm.
Brian Mavis (14:14.227)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Mavis (14:18.289)
you
Brian Mavis (14:28.584)
Mm-hmm.
Hollie Strand (14:30.499)
There was a national speaker and this was years ago and she painted this picture of why it was so easy for foster kids to go straight into trafficking. And she’s like, look, when I was a foster kid, she said there was an exchange of money for my presence in someone’s house. She said foster parents got paid to take me. She goes no different from an exchange of money for my presence in somebody’s hotel room, back seat or alley.
Brian Mavis (14:49.319)
Okay, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Brian Mavis (14:58.473)
Right?
Hollie Strand (14:58.523)
She said, when I was in foster care, I had a worker who told me what I could wear, where I was going to go to school, where I would live. She said, no different from having a pimp. And she said, and when I was in foster care, I didn’t have permission to pick up the phone and call my mom or my siblings. She said, I had to ask permission. She goes, no different from having a pimp. She said, you can’t believe how similar trafficking felt to being in the foster care system. And so then you look and you’re like, there’s, makes perfect sense. Why?
Brian Mavis (15:04.895)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Mavis (15:27.871)
Yeah.
Hollie Strand (15:28.775)
There’s so many foster kids that end up in the trafficking world.
Courtney (15:28.877)
Yeah.
Courtney (15:34.656)
next.
Brian Mavis (15:34.977)
gosh, yeah, what you just said, how similar it felt from being foster care to being trafficked. Man, that is scary.
Hollie Strand (15:45.595)
Yeah.
Courtney (15:46.465)
It is scary.
Brian Mavis (15:47.926)
Yeah, you can see why it’d be so easy to be victimized and not even feel like it. Like this doesn’t feel that different. I hate that. Gosh.
Hollie Strand (15:48.015)
It is.
Hollie Strand (15:58.545)
Yeah, and to wonder if anybody is looking out for them.
Brian Mavis (16:05.737)
Mm.
Hollie Strand (16:06.161)
You know what I mean? And if I can take it a step further, you know, I think about my own kids. And so I do a lot of presentations on internet safety, right? So, you know, if you were to boil all the water out of trafficking, it is the exploitation of the vulnerable. Okay. So I look at my own kids and the amount of supervision it takes to navigate technology with kids, right?
Brian Mavis (16:15.295)
Yeah. Yeah.
Hollie Strand (16:35.037)
And so there’s two parts of it is one is when you have little boys that become addicted to porn when they’re little, okay? They learn to objectify, right? You can’t purchase a person like a pizza unless you see them as an object to be purchased first, okay? So a couple weeks ago, I went through a nine-year-old’s phone and he had a porn collection that would rival most adult men who have looked through their phone.
Brian Mavis (16:35.295)
Mm-hmm.
Thank
Brian Mavis (16:43.293)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Mavis (16:47.221)
Mm.
Brian Mavis (16:53.407)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Mavis (17:03.091)
Mmm, mmm.
Hollie Strand (17:04.285)
And also I can think is, you know, at this point in the game, people are actors and they are objects to be used. And then you have young girls. This was, I think last year, my coworker, he was like, Hey, Holly, check this out. He said, uh, I have an 11 year old girl’s phone. She has 52 tabs open on her internet browser. And over 20 of those are porn sites. And both of us comment on how normal that is both boys and girls, their addiction and their fascination with.
And so when you lay that out, when you have kids in the foster care system that are not supervised, that do not have people advocating, supervising, looking through their devices and telling them like, that’s not what God intended is for people to be treated as objects. that’s, you were never meant to be treated as an object. That’s not how it’s supposed to be. That’s not what sex is. That’s not what relationships look like.
Brian Mavis (17:55.423)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Mavis (18:01.449)
Mm-hmm.
Hollie Strand (18:01.597)
You think about how many times foster kids just in general are left out of that supervision. And so when they watch that kind of garbage and they don’t have a good solid family letting them know that’s not how anybody should be treated, that seems normal. So when somebody treats them that way, they’ve been watching that for years. And then when you have these 18 year olds that are getting busted in pornography or prostitution stings at 18, this seems normal.
Brian Mavis (18:31.027)
Yeah.
Hollie Strand (18:31.301)
And so, I mean, I think it’s just that it’s multifaceted. There’s so many things that play into why our foster kids are so vulnerable when it comes to trafficking, exploitation, online solicitation.
Courtney (18:46.942)
Mm. Yeah.
Brian Mavis (18:47.765)
So OK, I want to do a little bit of camping out here. Just here you are an expert in internet crimes and you’re a mom. What advice would you give our listeners who do have kids that are 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 years old? like, do you do and what should parents do to say, it’s a dangerous world out there?
Hollie Strand (19:05.489)
No.
Brian Mavis (19:16.889)
And here’s how to help protect your kids from getting into pornography.
Hollie Strand (19:24.795)
I think the top thing I would say is that it’s not about trusting your kids. It’s about, you trust the world with your kids? So when we look at pornography in general, people are like, I don’t think my kids would go look for porn, right? Okay, but if you know how digital advertising works, you know that porn is looking for kids, okay? So digital advertising, the way it works, it’s gonna go through,
Brian Mavis (19:34.207)
Mmm.
Brian Mavis (19:41.813)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Brian Mavis (19:48.5)
Mm.
Hollie Strand (19:54.447)
these ad companies find their way. go through all of my stuff, right? All of my emails, all of my text messages, websites, histories, everything. And they look at me and they’re like, she’s married. She has five kids. She works law enforcement, Public service. And they basically give me ads that are meant to reflect my interests and desires, okay? They also reflect what I can afford.
Brian Mavis (20:12.053)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Mavis (20:22.239)
Okay, yep.
Hollie Strand (20:24.133)
So I never get ads for luxury cruises, expensive jewelry, yachts, mansions, because they know I can’t, I mean, they could advertise to me all day, but they know I can’t afford it. And the only way these ad companies get paid is if I click on those, right? If I follow through, okay? So follow me with this. They estimate that within a 99 % degree accuracy, they can name every person’s device on the planet.
Like they can look at a device and say, I know that Brian owns this device. I know that Courtney owns this device. Okay. So if you go with me on this, then why is it then an eight year old in which a tablet that belongs to an eight year old, nobody uses it, but the eight year old. Why wouldn’t eight year old get pop-ups from a porn site?
Brian Mavis (20:59.669)
Okay.
Brian Mavis (21:09.098)
Yeah.
Hollie Strand (21:16.657)
I mean, when you think about that, you’re like, it seems accidental, but it’s not. In fact, there’s a saying in the field that if you get a kid clicking when you’re young, you have a customer for life. Because again, it’s just that understanding that if I can get little kids looking at images and videos, by the time they have money, disposable income, what they’re looking is to produce a whale.
Brian Mavis (21:22.232)
that’s…
Brian Mavis (21:29.909)
Mm.
Hollie Strand (21:40.859)
Now, if I can take you back in time to the tobacco industry, what was interesting is the tobacco industry was accused of catering to kids, like they were marketing to kids and they said, no, we’re not. We’re not marketing to kids. But then when they were subpoenaing emails, they found that the executives in the tobacco industry were referring to teenagers as the replacement smokers. In fact, they said it was easier to get kids to try smoking and be addicted at the age of 14 than it was to get them to try at 24.
Brian Mavis (21:48.415)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Mavis (22:01.492)
Thank
Hollie Strand (22:09.701)
So they started marketing to kids. The pornography industry understands that if you can get a kid looking when they’re young, will constantly seek content, which, pornography, escort, sex trafficking, all the same industry. So how do you get individuals to purchase other people or to be subscribers to porn stars, OnlyFans, all of those industries? You have to get them clicking when they’re young.
because they have to look at other human beings as objects to be used for their entertainment. And so I tell parents all the time, if you don’t understand what your kids are up against, it is a spiritual battlefield that your kid is wandering on and they cannot handle it alone. have, I mean, in our home, we use gab phones and bark phones.
Courtney (22:55.979)
Yeah.
Brian Mavis (22:56.277)
What is that? I honestly don’t know what that is.
Hollie Strand (22:58.922)
Sure. Those phones are factory created. our gap phone is Samsung and there’s no store. My kids can’t go download Snapchat. In fact, they can’t download any apps and they can’t go on the internet. So what’s interesting is so when my son gets a message from one of his buddies and it’s a YouTube video, I can watch the YouTube video because I’ll get a link that he was sent to something to go online.
And then I’ll show him the video if it’s appropriate and say, hey, given that your digital footprint, right? College interviewers and job interviewers are going to see this. What do you think they would like you to see or say to this video? Right. And just teaching our kids and training them up. And so I think parents are so worried that their kids will be left behind. If I could share with you that one year we were selling a 13 year old girl and
Brian Mavis (23:36.469)
Hmm
Brian Mavis (23:48.031)
Mm.
Hollie Strand (23:54.577)
This guy that they’re talking to makes this comment to who he believes is a pimp. And he makes a comment like, if you want to stay in the room and watch, can. And we’re like, man, who are we dealing with? He just asked the pimp to watch him have sex with a 13 year old. And they do the rest, the take down, they bring him in for the interview. And when they asked him what his deal was with why did you want a pimp to watch you have sex with a 13 year old? He starts talking about his porn addiction.
And he’s like, do you know how porn works? You watch it. And then like in a couple of months, it gets boring. So you have to find something else and that gets boring. And then you find something else and that gets boring. You find something else. He said, try doing that since you were 13. He said, I take Viagra sometimes and that doesn’t even work. He said, I just figured if she was 13 and Pimp was watching and I took Viagra, it’d be just different enough. He was only 24 years old. Like all as I’m watching the interview, all I could think is like that could be any of our kids.
Brian Mavis (24:37.685)
Hmm.
Hollie Strand (24:53.819)
I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy or their kids. But what we’re seeing is that our kids are starting so young being overexposed that to purchase another human being or to watch random people have sex is very normal. So trying to get parents to realize what their kids are up against, it’s hard. Cause a lot of parents, you know, they’re so about the convenience of cell phones that they’re not willing to look at the dangerous side of
Brian Mavis (25:10.453)
and
Brian Mavis (25:21.855)
Yeah, I think what’s hitting me is, I mean, everything he says like, yeah, I know that happens, but I think the thing that’s hitting me is just how calculated all this is and how it’s targeting really young kids. I mean, it’s just, it’s so wickedly evil and that it’s calculated just seems to make it even that much worse.
Hollie Strand (25:31.879)
very.
Hollie Strand (25:38.247)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Mavis (25:51.566)
I loved how you said at the beginning there that this isn’t about do you trust your kids, it’s do you trust the people who are trying to reach your kids. That’s a great way. It’s like, well, heck no. I don’t. Especially after talking to you for 10 minutes.
Courtney (26:01.87)
Yeah.
Hollie Strand (26:01.969)
Yeah.
Hollie Strand (26:07.165)
No. and I tell parents, like, can you imagine somebody knocking on your door and saying, hey, can I go in your bedroom, your child’s bedroom and hang out with them for a little bit? Parents would be 911, but they give the phone. use the, yeah, I use the example of this when I present, but
Courtney (26:09.902)
Thank
Brian Mavis (26:22.835)
Right. Right. They do it every day with their phone. Yeah.
Courtney (26:25.166)
Yeah.
Hollie Strand (26:31.965)
I asked a mom, was like, do me a favor, your young daughter’s phone, I said, do me a favor, just add up five days. Her text messages, instant messages, chat messages, emails and phone calls just for five days. And her response, was like, it’s 479. I was like, that’s normal. I mean, that’s, you you think of emails and spam and all of the stuff. And one of the things that I tell parents is like, when I was 12 years old, if you wanted to talk to me and I was in a classroom,
You had to physically be in the classroom. If my parents wanted to talk to me, they had to call the office, right? Call the office and do all of that and get me a note. When I was a 12 year old girl and you wanted to talk to me and I was in my bedroom, you called my parents’ home phone and my parents answered and they decided who got to talk to me. Now, and I asked this mom, I said, can you imagine going and checking your mailbox on Friday? And there’s 479 envelopes or packages for your daughter.
Brian Mavis (27:03.093)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Mavis (27:07.253)
it is.
Courtney (27:17.262)
Hmm.
Hollie Strand (27:31.259)
I said, would you let her open them? And she said, no. And I said, but you let her open them all day long. And, you know, and I explained that when, when our team does the undercover operations, they do not take a 12 year old girl and put her downtown in the city we’re working and hope somebody should believe she’s a prostitute. They use the same applications that our kids are all on. And so when you think of what our kids are doing online and what they’re exposed to, it’s like,
Brian Mavis (27:31.401)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Mavis (27:36.819)
Yeah.
Hollie Strand (28:00.069)
There’s individuals engaging with them. It’s not about you trusting your kid at all. It’s about knowing that you’re not filtering any of those messages.
Courtney (28:04.654)
Yeah.
Brian Mavis (28:11.248)
Yeah.
Courtney (28:11.278)
So how does this play out as they get a little bit older? So your oldest at home is 14, right? So I have four out of the house. They all turned 18, like their senior year of high school. So I had them for a little bit. Our rule at our house is no phone till they’re 16 when they’re 16, no social media till they’re 18. But now we have a daughter in the house who’s her senior year, she’s 17. And like, she wants social media. And we’ve been saying not till 18, but then there’s a part of me that’s like, well,
she’s going to be out of her house when she turns 18. So do I want her to have something so can kind of guide her along that instead of, now you’re out of the house and here you go. Like what do you suggest as they get a little bit older? Like do you is there some like letting go a little bit or like how what would your suggestion be?
Hollie Strand (28:53.095)
Absolutely, absolutely. So the older they get in that prefrontal cortex starts to develop. I would say that you know our job is to train and so even with those phones of saying OK, I’m going to enable Snapchat on your bark phone or your your gap phone. I’m going to go ahead and put it on there. But if I see changes in who you are as a person, I’m going to go ahead and take it off. And really I tell my kids you don’t have to have any electronics, right? We don’t even have to have a PlayStation if.
My relationship with you is so important that if our relationship changes because of electronics, then we’re going to get rid of them. So I tell them, you have to show me you’re mature enough and you’re honest enough to have those. just having those conversations, like, let’s just run through some scenarios. What if you didn’t ask for it and boom, here’s a naked picture of your friend on your phone? How are you going to handle that? Let’s just talk about it. And so I don’t think that
No technology is best, but I also think that unsupervised it is that training our kids up and saying, I believe that you’re, I believe that you’re ready to take that next step. Knowing that you’re going to, you’re going to, you’re going to falter and that’s okay, but at least you’re with me. unfortunately you see some kids at eight years old are given smartphones and there’s no training. There’s no supervision.
Brian Mavis (30:16.149)
Yeah, yeah, and I think t think my kids just eight y not, they’re not at risk,
Courtney (30:21.134)
What are we going to do?
Hollie Strand (30:21.233)
Yeah. 76, it’s 76 % of all child sexual abuse material, otherwise known as child pornography, 76 % is prepubescent children. Only 24 % is adolescent. And so I tell parents, cause I’ve had parents come to me and say, know, Holly, when I get, my kids are kind of young. When they get a little bit older and they’re teenagers, I want to come listen to one of your presentations on internet safety.
And I just kind of look at them and think, are you kidding? 76 % of the child abuse material out there, the pictures and videos of our prepubescent kids. And so that’s the target, that’s the engagement.
Brian Mavis (31:04.541)
Yeah, that’s I’m glad you’re sharing that again. It’s sick, but it’s yeah, I can see Lots of parents say exactly what that lady told you like they’re 13. You’re like, well, you’re already five years behind gosh, that’s That’s scary. Okay, so everything you shared obviously is relevant to every parent out there But if we were to just talk about okay now, let’s go back back to kids and foster care
Hollie Strand (31:19.548)
Yeah.
Brian Mavis (31:33.174)
So you have kids in foster care that are in your home. They have shared some of what you shared of like even foster care feels a little bit like normalizing relationships that are built upon kind of transactional kinds of things. How would you advise a foster parent to say,
Hollie Strand (31:33.341)
Sure.
Brian Mavis (32:00.33)
Here’s what to do so it doesn’t feel like that for that child. So that it doesn’t make that feel normal. Do you understand my question? Okay.
Hollie Strand (32:10.013)
Sure. Absolutely. One of the things that my husband and I have done in all of our placements, if possible, it is trying to get to know the birth family. I mean, just knowing that even if they can have no relationship until they’re 18, I mean, some of those things of saying that your family is important to you, so they’re important to me, right?
Brian Mavis (32:37.429)
Mm-hmm.
Hollie Strand (32:38.287)
Just because they may have messed up doesn’t mean that you’re a mess up or you’re a screw up or you’re an inconvenience. I’ve asked kids when they’re old enough, how do you want me to refer to you when we’re out in public? Because there’s some kids that really just want, I just want you to say your kids and that’s all the kids. They don’t want any distinction to be made between foster kids.
bio kids, adoptive kids. And I’m like, all right. And there’s some that really are, you know, I want people to know that I’m in foster care. Okay, okay. You know, but respecting those choices where you can respect them. In some cases, you really have to respect that privacy. And I’ve had to explain that to kids like, you know, we’re probably not gonna announce that. I’ll probably just say all of my kids just because it’s
you know, a different situation. But I think giving them as much freedom as you can to choose their clothing. We have our daughter, we still have contact with some of her biological family. And to her, that is huge. That is huge that it’s not a, you know, done, you have to leave that part of your life behind.
Brian Mavis (34:01.961)
Mm-hmm.
Hollie Strand (34:03.057)
So there’s some things that when you think of that transactional piece of it, it is you’re here because, not because we want you here, not because you’re just part of the family, but we’ve told kids, foster kids that come in, once you’re part of our family, you’re always part of our family, which means that it’s not an 18 years old and you’re out. It is, we’ve had kids come back to our house with their parents and do play dates after they were returned home.
And I tell parents, tell foster parents or people that are considering fostering, there will never be an experience like watching kids go back, like when their parents are safe and they go back and then to have the family come back into your home altogether. Like there’s, there’s, it’s yeah. And I think rooting for the child, rooting for their parents and it’s hard.
Brian Mavis (34:33.243)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (34:43.374)
Mm.
Courtney (34:54.604)
Yeah.
Courtney (34:59.124)
Mm. Yeah.
Hollie Strand (35:03.077)
It’s hard, but I think when kids see that, when you speak positively about the people that they love, even when you’re frustrated with them, that it still shows them worth and value.
Brian Mavis (35:09.705)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (35:12.525)
Yeah.
Mm.
Brian Mavis (35:15.731)
Yeah, think, gosh, those two words right there, that if kids still feel like my life is worth it, I’m still valuable, that will help protect them from people who would want to take advantage of them not feeling that way.
Courtney (35:39.363)
Yeah. What do you think about, we were foster parents, we’ve been foster parents for 17 years. Right now, we primarily foster teens. So we have a lot of these conversations about electronics and all this stuff. And we’ve just, we’ve taken the mindset, we tell them, we are going to be honest with you. We are a very open family. We are honest. We’re going to have these hard conversations. What are your thoughts about maybe explaining to them in a healthy way, a little bit about their vulnerability?
Do you think that’d be helpful for them to understand kind of the realities behind electronics and stuff in letting them know the vulnerability and like a lot of the kids come into our home, like you had mentioned earlier, know they’ve never had any sort of guidance on electronics, no rules, no looking into things, no. And so they do feel like we are being intrusive and we are, you know, they don’t like the rules we have to set in place, but we tell them it’s for the good, you know, but where’s like that line of, I’m not trying to say your past.
Hollie Strand (36:23.302)
Yes, yes.
Hollie Strand (36:30.786)
yes.
Courtney (36:37.23)
you know, your mom didn’t care for you because she didn’t do these things. She just didn’t know. But we do know. You know, does that make sense? Like how do we have those conversations and make them feel heard and seen, but also not judged?
Hollie Strand (36:43.857)
Yeah.
Hollie Strand (36:50.342)
Sure, think sometimes when you’re approaching that conversation, it’s starting it out with, you know what, kiddo, if you had genes, like just you’re predisposed to diabetes, you know what? As a caring woman in your life, you know what I would do? I would sit down with you and say, these things you need to watch out for. Why? Because you’re predisposed, right? There’s just some factors that play into the…
you have an increased chance of fill in the blank, right? You have an increased chance. One of the things that came out of the ACES study, Abuse Childhood Experience Studies, is that sometimes just people knowing, like really I’m predisposed to that, that makes so much more sense. But it also gave people power to say, well, I can fight against that. Absolutely you can. Absolutely you can.
Brian Mavis (37:29.705)
Mm-hmm.
Hollie Strand (37:47.515)
And so I think being honest and just saying, Hey, these are some of the things that you may face. These are some of the stuff that, you know, might come your way simply because of your past. It does. It’s not a fatalistic, you were in foster care. guess you’re going to get trafficked or you’re going to be exploited, but there’s some things that come with that. And so just trying to, you know, exploring that, that, just that sense, like, I want you to have the best life ever, the best life ever.
And so I just want to set you up for success.
Brian Mavis (38:19.701)
.
Courtney (38:21.986)
Good.
Brian Mavis (38:22.741)
So Holly, think I hope hope I’m quoting you correctly because this is something I heard that you said to somebody else. And this somebody else told me that somebody else’s doors. Yeah, you’re like, who in the world are you talking to? Is that you might have said, you know, since virtually everybody who’s listening to this isn’t in law enforcement.
Courtney (38:32.142)
you
Hollie Strand (38:35.549)
Okay.
Brian Mavis (38:49.851)
If you want to make a difference in human trafficking, become a foster parent. Did you say that? Or would you say that something like that? Okay.
Hollie Strand (38:56.613)
I did. In fact, almost at every presentation that I do in the public, I will say if you really want to make a difference, be a foster parent. I think the stats show that over 60 % of kids that are recovered from trafficking were in foster care, had been in foster care. So for a while, I chaired the Western South Dakota Human Trafficking Task Force. And I would have people approach me and just be like, Holly, I want to get involved. My heart breaks. What can I do?
Brian Mavis (39:12.713)
Yes. Yeah.
Hollie Strand (39:26.469)
And they wanted to be the person on the white horse that goes in and rescues. but when you, and, and, and my challenge to be, to them was like, are you willing to reach them before they’re trafficked? Because that’s what it takes to be like, you know, instead of waiting for the trauma to occur, why don’t you just open your home and be a foster parent? And if you can’t be a foster parent, be a rap family. And if you can’t like just do respite, everybody can do something, but.
Brian Mavis (39:29.737)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Brian Mavis (39:41.203)
I love that. Yes.
Courtney (39:55.63)
Yeah.
Hollie Strand (39:56.315)
Don’t come to me telling me that your heart breaks for trafficking when you’re not willing to do at least something.
Brian Mavis (39:56.342)
Yes
Brian Mavis (40:02.175)
willing to step up in front of it. there’s, yeah, I understand people, know, they romanticize this rescuing thing and the idea of stepping in and intervening before they’re being trafficked and receiving them into your home, it’s not sexy, it’s hard.
Hollie Strand (40:19.164)
Yes.
Hollie Strand (40:24.647)
So hard.
Brian Mavis (40:25.653)
And so but yeah, if you’re if you’re sincere and wanting to help these kids then that’s that is what it takes and so yeah, I’ve yeah and Everything you said totally makes sense as to why kids in foster care Who aren’t being connected to a family with a lot of the advice that you’ve given how they would be so vulnerable to these and kind of You know the the fake family who is actually a predatory pimp
Hollie Strand (40:34.052)
Absolutely.
Courtney (40:55.34)
Yeah.
Brian Mavis (40:55.486)
Hollie Strand (40:55.845)
If I could, know, they talk about the safety net and the best way I’ve heard it described is make a list of everybody that you could call if you broke down on the highway right now. Okay, make a list of all the people. Now make it, you know, add to this list people that if you needed $500 that they would give it to you without question. Like I just need 500 bucks. Yep, sure. Absolutely. I trust you. can, here it is. And they said,
Brian Mavis (41:09.223)
Okay.
Hollie Strand (41:26.083)
think of people that you could call and you’re like, Hey, I just need help. I just need to vent. We would you be willing to listen to me? And basically what they put it, they were, they’re like, the longer the list is. The bigger your safety net is. Okay. That’s that that’s that you knowing if I fail and if I fall, something will catch me. Okay. And, and they said, you’re more likely to go out for sports. You’re more likely to go to college. You’re more likely.
Brian Mavis (41:48.575)
Mm-hmm.
Hollie Strand (41:55.355)
to engage in healthy behaviors, you’re also more likely to leave an abusive relationship, right? And I remember talking to the head of probation and he made this comment about, know, Holly, some of the individuals, so I’ve been at ICAC for 10 years, but I cut my teeth counseling offenders. That’s how I cut my teeth, starting when I was 20. Yeah, I actually did, I did mental status exams.
Brian Mavis (42:04.553)
Mmm. Mmm.
Hollie Strand (42:24.303)
on death row and segregation in a super max security prison. And I did sex offender treatment in a max security prison. So, but I was doing counseling with probation and parole. And he said, you know, these individuals are so resourceful. He said, I have a young gal that’s being supervised and she wants to go to a funeral across the state. And he said, she has no money. So she offered sexual favors to her neighbor. And he said, did she get to the funeral? Yep. He fixed her car.
But again, when you have no safety net, the world gets super small, really, really small. And so when I encourage people, think about being a foster family in which you are the safety net. And you agree with this kiddo, not only are we the safety net right now, we’re gonna be the safety net still when you’re 30. When you call and you’re like, man, I’m just struggling, I’m gonna pick up the phone and answer it. Because I know that the bigger safety net you have,
Brian Mavis (42:59.015)
you
Brian Mavis (43:06.089)
Mm-hmm.
Hollie Strand (43:20.605)
Every kid that comes into our house calls everybody grandma, auntie and uncle. Like, I mean, it’s just, we have this huge family that it’s once you’re part of the family, you’re always part of the family because we believe that safety net feature. The more kids know that they have people fighting for them, the more secure they are and who they are. The more they’re willing to stand up to somebody who tries to exploit them. Like, no, I got 30 people who have my back. Yep.
Brian Mavis (43:45.055)
Yeah.
Yes, yeah, that’s so good. Yeah, that actually reminds me of there’s a book by a counselor named Bruce Perry in the book is called The Boy Who Was Raised as a Dog and it’s about kids from mostly foster care. he, towards the end of book talks about how 100 years ago or so that every child had, I forget, it’s something like had.
a certain amount of relationships, know, safe adult relationships. like, so I don’t, again, I don’t have the numbers exactly right, but like every child had seven adult relationships that were safe. And nowadays, if you go take a child and put them in daycare, that number’s reversed. Like, we have one adult for every 10 kids. And so his point was, his point was,
Hollie Strand (44:42.845)
That’s so scary.
Brian Mavis (44:45.363)
the more adult relationships a child has, the safer they are.
Hollie Strand (44:53.863)
Think of how many kids age out of foster care with none. that breaks my heart.
Brian Mavis (44:57.737)
Yeah, what the nun, yeah. Yeah.
Courtney (45:00.812)
We had a teenage boy in our house last spring and the first week he was with us. We’re just driving around town and he was having a really emotional day. And he just looked at me and he said, do you realize that I don’t have one healthy adult relationship in my life? Like somebody that I can trust from my past, not one. And it just broke my heart. My kids were in the car. So it brought up, know, good conversation later with our kids as well.
He was with us not for that long period of time, but he was with us for long enough, know, a month in. kind said, we sat him down and we said, you know, you made this comment in the car one day. Do you feel like you have at least one caring, healthy adult? And he kind of looked at us for a little while and he goes, I actually can name five now. And it wasn’t just us. I mean, thankfully he did mention us, but he also mentioned the people.
We do what you said, Holly. We realize that we can’t do this all alone as foster parents. And so we find people to mentor, people to come alongside, people to take them and go play basketball. And those relationships, if they are meaningful, make just as much of an impact as we do as foster parents when they feel like they’ve got more people in their court that they can trust. I know adults, but none of them are healthy.
Hollie Strand (46:05.041)
Definitely, Yeah.
Brian Mavis (46:12.021)
Well, Holly, I want to thank you for doing some incredibly important work and incredibly dark area of life that you’re able to still have so much light and hope. And I’m so grateful that there’s people like you, you and people like you that do what you do. And I want to, again, highlight what you shared is that. To our listeners, if you…
Hollie Strand (46:26.717)
Thanks.
Brian Mavis (46:40.703)
want to make a difference in the area of human trafficking. And that is an area that tends to get way more awareness than compared to foster care. And that’s an area that you care about. Well, foster care is the place where you can step in and make a difference and hopefully, yes, prevent a child. That’s better than rescuing, is preventing a child from being trafficked. And my encouragement to you is
I would listen to this episode a few times just to keep hearing some new stuff each time that Holly shared. I wrote a book called Go Upstream, diving into the foster care to health and social wounds. And this is one. And that chapter does point out, just as Holly said, that the majority of rescued youth from trafficking had foster care experience.
Now it’s like, they were in foster care. was like, yeah, but they were probably in a group home. They ran away. You can be a family for them, a for now family that gives them a trusting adult relationship. again, Holly, thank you so much. So much wisdom to share. And again, I cannot believe the job that you have. Thank God for people like you.
Courtney (48:06.626)
Yes, you must be a tough woman.
Hollie Strand (48:07.805)
Thank you for having. Well, I appreciate you guys putting this together. This is awesome. And I just, hope people get, I hope they get motivated to not only foster, but to step up the protection on the kids in their home.
Brian Mavis (48:18.985)
Yeah.
Brian Mavis (48:23.677)
Yes, thank you. That was said so well. Yep. Thank you.
Courtney (48:28.558)
Holly, do you have any online classes that you put on or any of those recorded or anything that we could share with our listeners?
Hollie Strand (48:33.777)
I don’t have any recorded right now. We were looking to record one soon. We always say that and then we get, you know, slammed with cyber tips and then we get crazy busy and then we’re not. But once I get it done, I will send it your way.
Courtney (48:47.118)
We’ll make sure we share that in our resources too. provide resources, free resources and links to people all the time and we’d love to include that.
Hollie Strand (48:56.476)
Sounds good.
Courtney (48:57.582)
Okay, thanks again.
Brian Mavis (48:58.944)
Thank you.
