Episode 55 – Powerful Children’s Book Illuminates Truths About Foster Care with Jessica Mathisen

TRANSCRIPT:

Courtney (00:01.396)
Well, hello and welcome to the Foster Friendly Podcast. Today we have with us Jessica Mathi… I’m going to start all over because I almost said it. I told you, I have a really good friend with the last name Mathi and that’s my problem. Good morning and welcome to the Foster Friendly Podcast. Today we have with us Jessica Mathison, who is a former elementary school teacher and a foster adoptive and bio mom.

Jessica Mathisen (00:12.801)
love it, it’s okay.

Courtney (00:27.476)
You sound a lot like me. a former elementary school teacher, foster adoptive and bio mom. So I love it. Got a lot in common. She lives just outside Atlanta, Georgia with her husband and her three kids. And she’s the host of the Fullness of Joy podcast. So welcome to our podcast, Jessica. Thanks for being with us today.

Jessica Mathisen (00:31.021)
that.

Jessica Mathisen (00:43.793)
Thank you for having me. I’m excited to get to chat with you.

Travis (00:46.715)
Awesome. We’re happy to have you. So as a fellow podcaster, we have to know what’s been your favorite podcast guest or types of guests or episodes on yours.

Jessica Mathisen (00:57.377)
Yeah, so it’s funny, I started off with kind of having like a monologue type podcast where I would just do like teaching and I quickly realized I didn’t want to keep writing that much material. And I’m somebody who loves to talk with others. When I was younger, I wanted to be like Oprah or Katie Kirk. And so was like, I’m just going to talk to people. I want to do interviews. And so one of my favorite interviews was actually with a friend of mine. At the time we weren’t friends, I would call us more acquaintances, but we had gone to college together. name’s Laura Godfrey.

And so then when I had her on my podcast, I got to learn all these new things about her and since we’ve actually become like in real life friends. And so that was just really neat because, you you kind of think, you know, a person just because we got into school together, but she was a few years older than me. And so then we have ended up in the same area now in Metro Atlanta. And so I thought, you know, I really think I’m supposed to have her on the podcast. I think she has a story to share. And so it was it was really neat to get to know her on air and then now off air.

Courtney (01:53.736)
That’s fun.

Travis (01:54.539)
I love that. It actually was on Courtney a while back. I have a personal podcast too. I had a, I kind of as a social experiment, but I had a, a classmate who I graduated in 1998 with have not talked since thought he was funny. Kind of kept up on social media. And then we, we literally did a podcast as sort of almost a reunion. And it was like, this could either be a train wrecker, but it was really fun. So what you did kind of reminded me a little of that.

Jessica Mathisen (02:21.716)
Yeah, that’s awesome.

Courtney (02:23.814)
and stuff. Yeah, and excuse my voice. I’ve been down actually for two weeks with actually acid reflux. Who knew that acid reflux could cause a chronic cough? But so this is the best I’ve been in weeks. So here, this what we got today. Before we dive into some deeper stuff, Jessica, tell us a little bit more about your journey as a foster and adoptive mom and how that came to be.

Jessica Mathisen (02:29.836)
I am so sorry.

I’m glad you’re here! that’s awful.

Jessica Mathisen (02:44.928)
Yeah, so my husband and I, we actually talked about adoption on our very first date, which sounds kind of intense, and I guess it is, but we met online on eHarmony, so we had done all the little steps to communication, written all these letters, emails really, and so then when we were on our first date, it was like not small talk, you know? And so that was kind of a shared dream of ours, and then when we started trying to our family kind of the natural way,

We ran into some hiccups and so we went to a conference that our church hosted that was for foster and adoptive parents. And a lot of times they would get like their CEUs through it and everything. But anybody could attend if they wanted to learn about it. And some friends of ours who also had some fertility problems had said, you know, you should check this out because we’re thinking about adopting and we learned a lot there. Maybe you guys could glean something from it too. And we both left that day feeling like we were supposed to foster, which is…

Pretty crazy, I mean we were drinking from a fire hose, learning all this information, hearing all the statistics, and then at the end of the day we both looked at each other and thought, I think we’re supposed to foster. So we actually started fostering before we had bio kids.

Travis (03:41.802)
Haha

Travis (03:52.919)
Courtney you gotta…

Courtney (03:53.372)
telling you, your story is so aligned. We talked about foster care and adoption on our first date and we dealt with infertility and then it started with foster care and adoption and then ended up getting pregnant. So yeah, yeah, a lot of alignment there. I love it.

Jessica Mathisen (04:04.916)
Wow, that’s so cool.

Travis (04:07.671)
It is cool and it’s, it’s, don’t know. It’s just like, it’s kind of powerful to, I mean, that was not my story. Although I met my wife online too. And, but I, it is interesting too, when couples sort of kind of come in with that being sort of part of the origin point of their relationship. Like, I don’t know, like what it, there’s a strength there. There’s a, almost like a mission or already as you’re getting going, which is super cool. I mean, is that kind of how you felt with your husband and to be.

Jessica Mathisen (04:25.108)
Yeah.

Jessica Mathisen (04:33.268)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, we really felt like, you know, for us, it was, you know, there’s a temptation that I think a lot of foster parents have in adoptive parents if they have walked through infertility or fertility issues, where they’re trying to like meet that need and that desire and longing for a child through foster care adoption. And I think for us, like we didn’t see foster care as like a means to an end, like, well, we just want some kids. So here’s a way we could get some kids, you know.

We saw it as like, my goodness, like we had no idea the depth of the need right in our backyard. We’ve always loved kids. We both worked with kids. I was a teacher, like I said, but my husband also worked in the school system at the time. so we just felt like, okay, this is something that our family can do. And this is way we can serve our community and love people in our community. It wasn’t just like, well, since we’re not having our own kids, I guess we could help some others. It wasn’t like a flippant thing.

Travis (05:30.143)
Yeah

Courtney (05:30.16)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and that like plan A versus plan B. I’ve heard that terminology before and I’ve heard people be like, this is our plan B. Like, you don’t say that. Or maybe you shouldn’t be doing this. But yeah, yeah.

Jessica Mathisen (05:39.902)
Yeah. Doesn’t work quite like that.

Travis (05:39.905)
Hmm. Yeah.

Courtney (05:47.592)
Well, one thing that I didn’t mention in your bio is you’re also an author, which is super fun. Your book, No Matter Where I Go, which I have, I have it right here. was on the waiting list for it. It was just released at the end of May. And I’m just curious what compelled you to write this book about the experiences of kids in foster care.

Jessica Mathisen (05:57.706)
No.

Travis (05:58.167)
Yes.

Jessica Mathisen (06:07.21)
Yeah, so it’s funny because I was self-published up until this point with this kids book. And I had always written devotionals and things for women and kind of Bible study-esque type things. And my husband had always told me, you you should write a kids book. Like you love kids, you’re a teacher, whatever. And at that point I didn’t have an agent or a publisher to work with. And I thought, I don’t know how to self-publish a kids book. I don’t even have a story. Like, no.

Travis (06:33.974)
haha

Jessica Mathisen (06:34.418)
And so through all of my different writing endeavors, I had written an essay and it was tied to foster care and kind of my unorthodox journey to motherhood. And so my editor found me through that essay and she said, we’ve been looking, our publisher B &H Publishing has been looking for someone to write in this foster care space because there’s just not enough resources for kids in care. And I jumped at the chance. And so I just was excited to be able to write a story.

that my kids could appreciate because my bio kids are six and three and a half and then our daughter who came to us who foster care is 22 now. And so I thought, you know, all these other things that I’ve written, they don’t even understand or know, like they’re like, okay, cool. Like mommy’s face is on the back of a book, but they couldn’t read it. And so knowing that it was a story, like I could write a story that they could understand and then other children could also understand and cling to was really special to me. And so that’s, that’s kind of how it came to be.

Courtney (07:29.598)
That’s great. One of my favorite things about the book that I just love, I, so part of my job at AKB is I oversee our resources. So people will often send me books to read or suggestions of things to add to our resource library. And I’ll get some of them. And one of my biggest beefs with a lot of the children’s books is they have this very specific ending. And I feel like when you have a specific ending in the realm of foster care, and I’m reading this to one of the kiddos that comes into my care and it’s like,

Jessica Mathisen (07:48.615)
Yeah.

Courtney (07:54.584)
but that might not be your ending, you know, and then they start to think that’s going to be their ending. And I love how your book ends because it does not have a specific ending. And the ending is no matter where I go from here, if I’m here, you know, the whole premises of the book of, you know, like God is still with me. just having that like be the ending I thought was super sweet and super applicable to any kid. doesn’t have to be like, doesn’t matter what their story is going to be like, how it’s going to end.

Travis (07:56.225)
Hmm.

Jessica Mathisen (07:56.37)
Right.

Jessica Mathisen (08:05.267)
next.

Travis (08:09.847)
Hmm.

Jessica Mathisen (08:14.748)
Yeah.

Jessica Mathisen (08:18.696)
Yeah, I think like I in writing it that was the goal honestly because foster care there is never one size fits all with the stories as y’all know I mean every case is so different we had five different kids come to us through three different placements because we had a sibling group at one point and every single case was so different because every child and every family is different and so

Travis (08:19.062)
Hmm.

Travis (08:28.215)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Mathisen (08:42.61)
thinking that I could just write some story with like a pretty little ending just like didn’t really feel true to the experience that foster care is.

Travis (08:50.315)
Hmm. man. That’s awesome. And yeah. And even as it seems to be taking a certain trajectory, changes. So the story’s changing potentially and where things go. So yeah, what a cool way to end that as Courtney said. So Jessica, what do you kind of envision then for, the ways your book can be used by foster families and kind of just support networks, all of that kind of stuff?

Jessica Mathisen (09:14.246)
Yeah, so I think what’s been interesting is that people who have kids who haven’t fostered have really enjoyed using it to introduce their kids to what foster care is. And so I think even families who don’t foster, I think it’s a good starting point for that conversation because I don’t know about y’all, but I didn’t even know what foster care was when I was younger. I knew what adoption was, but even in my circles, sometimes it was like, do they know they’re adopted? It was like a taboo thing sometimes and just not healthy.

Courtney (09:38.676)
He he.

Jessica Mathisen (09:44.272)
And so for families who don’t even foster, I think it’s a great starting point to say, hey, this is what happens sometimes. But for families who are foster families, I want them to be able to use it just to be able to help their kids know that they’re seen, that they’re loved, and that there’s other kids like them out there. Like they’re not the only kid in foster care because I think a lot of the times it’s hard for kids in care to see and understand that their experience, even though it is unique to them, it’s not completely abnormal, unfortunately.

lots of kids in care and there’s many kids who have gone through what they’ve gone through.

Courtney (10:17.266)
Hmm. Yeah, I got to share this quick story because it just popped in my head when you said that, like, do they know they’re adopted? So you’ll love this, Jessica. So my son, Decio, he is he was adopted at age 10 from Ethiopia. And then our youngest at the time was Adi and she was 10 months old and she’s black and we’re folding laundry one day and he looks over at me goes, she’s black, he’s black, I’m white. Right. And he’s 10 years old. goes, Mom, do think you’re going to ever tell Adi that she’s adopted? Like, huh?

Travis (10:46.433)
haha

Courtney (10:46.573)
That’s pretty funny coming from you. Yeah, I love it.

Jessica Mathisen (10:47.688)
I think she’ll figure it out. Well, you know what’s funny though is kids, it’s like they don’t know what they don’t know because my husband is white and I, as you can see, an African American. our kids, our bio kids are biracial and we have a very close friends of ours that the mom and the dad are white and they adopted a little girl who’s African American. And we were talking about how she was adopted one time and he was like, no, she’s not. I was like, yes, she is. Like how could she come? And then I was like,

Courtney (11:11.092)
I’m sorry.

Jessica Mathisen (11:16.699)
Like he doesn’t get how genetics work yet, you know? And so he was like, no, she’s not. Like those are her mom and dad. Like she had her, like he was like, gonna take it to the grave. And I was like, okay, well, we’ll this conversation later when we have some other conversation.

Courtney (11:19.966)
Yeah.

Travis (11:27.242)
out of it.

Courtney (11:30.996)
We’ll talk. Yeah. I love it. What age kids do you think will benefit from reading the book no matter where I go?

Travis (11:35.063)
We’re not there yet.

Jessica Mathisen (11:43.793)
So it’s technically for ages four through eight, but honestly I think a little younger and a little older could benefit from it as well. mean, my youngest is three and a half and she kind of got it. And I think a kid that’s nine or 10 could still get it too. But yeah, I think just that elementary school age where they’re just in that tender space where they are asking questions about things and they’re noticing things and they have thoughts and observations that they don’t exactly know how to articulate. I think that’ll really help.

Courtney (12:12.036)
Yeah, I have a, five and seven year old was adopted from foster care and we get, we’re the on-call family for our county. So we get kids in all the time, you know, coming and going, and they’re always asking, like, they kind of get it, but they kind of don’t. And so I actually sat down and read this book to them yesterday and they were asking all sorts of questions. It was super sweet to hear the questions that they had in response to it. And I think it like made their brain, like they’re starting to think like, like another piece of the puzzle is coming together and I’m understanding this more.

Jessica Mathisen (12:23.845)
Yeah.

I love that.

Jessica Mathisen (12:36.933)
Yeah. that’s so precious. I’m so glad.

Travis (12:40.471)
Ha

Courtney (12:42.386)
What about some misconceptions about children in foster care that you hope to dispel through this? mean, you kind of mentioned, but there are just so many misconceptions. What do you hope from this?

Jessica Mathisen (12:53.553)
think one of the biggest things that I struggled with, and my husband would probably tell you the same, is that oftentimes people will say things I’m sure y’all have experienced this too, where they’d say, my goodness, they are so lucky to have y’all, they’re so blessed to be with you. And the thing is like, they have just been through hell and back and they have a long way to go and everything that they’ve endured is going to affect them for the rest of their lives. It’s hard, deep, heavy stuff.

Travis (13:06.081)
Mm-hmm.

Courtney (13:11.924)
Hmm.

Travis (13:11.969)
Mm-hmm.

Travis (13:19.841)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Mathisen (13:21.477)
And so I get the heart behind that sentiment of like, thank God now they’re safe or, they have people who are loving that, whatever. But I think that, you know, I mean, they’re not lucky. They’re not blessed. Like they, no one would choose to switch places with them. And so I think that, I think that’s one of the biggest misconceptions is like, okay, this child comes into your home and so everything’s like hunky dory and they should be grateful and all of this.

Travis (13:23.712)
Mm-hmm.

Travis (13:32.055)
Right.

Travis (13:35.723)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica Mathisen (13:47.034)
That’s just not the truth. That’s not their experience. they love, most of them want to be with their parents, because that’s the way it’s supposed to be. We’re supposed to be with our parents. And they know something’s wrong with that. And so they’re not lucky. They’re not blessed. They’re, I mean, all of us of course are blessed in many ways, but you know what I mean? That situation in itself, like we should not call that blessed.

Courtney (14:09.016)
Yeah. Do you have a certain like if when you’re fostering and got a kiddo or, you know, even adopted kids and somebody says something like that, do you have something that you either say in response or you’ve taught the kids to say in response or how do you handle that?

Travis (14:09.025)
Yeah.

Jessica Mathisen (14:21.882)
Sometimes I would just smile and not be like, yeah. And then I feel like other times I would say something to the effect of like, no, we’re blessed by her or she’s teaching us so much or we’re learning so much. We’re so grateful to have her and kind of like flipping on its head.

Courtney (14:39.304)
Yeah, yeah, I love it.

Travis (14:39.308)
Mm-hmm.

Do you have one Courtney? you just looking for more?

Courtney (14:43.432)
I’ve kind of do the same thing. Like, I kind of look at them like, lucky, blessed, you know? And then I’ll be like, no, I’m the one that is. And, you know, and most people kind of get it once you kind of put it that way. They’re like, I think, think about what I was saying.

Jessica Mathisen (14:46.565)
Yeah.

Travis (14:47.275)
Yeah.

Jessica Mathisen (14:54.381)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Travis (14:55.511)
Well, and that really is the point is that this is just another realm of just really a lack of awareness. I because it’s like, it’s the assumption, like you said, Jessica, is yeah, that you’re seeing this part of the story now and go, oh, wow, this is a stable family. You are blah, you’re lucky and all this kind of stuff. And again, just that lack of awareness of like, yeah, the trauma of being separated from a birth family, like the story to get to this more, if you want to call it a redemptive phase, had to go through

to hell and back. I to go through, you know, the, guess the breaking apart of the first family. And absolutely, like you said, like we’re all wired to want to have that bio family connection. So it’s messy and beautiful and hard and all the things. So that being said, kind of zooming out further on this kind of whole thing is

Jessica Mathisen (15:26.339)
Yeah.

Jessica Mathisen (15:31.244)
Mm-hmm.

Travis (15:49.567)
What do you see are some of the biggest challenges for foster families? And then kind of where do you see the role of churches fitting into that whole thing there?

Jessica Mathisen (15:57.551)
think the biggest challenge is feeling overwhelmed by the many needs that the kids have because you as a foster parent are limited in what you can provide. And I think the biggest thing that a lot of people, well-meaning, will want to do is give stuff or money. And what they really need is relationship. And the foster parent can’t be the only healthy relationship that they have. They need lots of people pouring into them and saying, like, you matter and…

helping them to identify their different gifts and their likes and their interests and just, you know, taking them to the movies. And so I think the most meaningful things that we had, because we had a kind of a model set up with our church where we had a care team that would bring us meals and they would pray for us with court dates and things like that. But the biggest thing was people either in that core people on that care team or outside of that, who would just say like, hey, can I take your daughter to the movies? Can I take her out to lunch?

Can we just go to the park with the kids one day? And so, one time we had a friend of ours, my husband and I had a vacation planned and my dad got sick and they were gonna be with grandparents. And she was like, you have to take this trip. And she took the kids for a week, like with hardly any notice. And I mean, obviously not everyone can do that, but just tangible things like that, I think are the biggest needs because…

Courtney (17:12.905)
Hmm.

Jessica Mathisen (17:22.774)
It’s hard what you’re doing and you need a break, you need a respite, you need people that you can talk to, you just need downtime, you need time with your spouse if you’re doing it with your spouse. so providing that time by investing in their lives and then helping them to see that there are lots of people who care about them, I think is the biggest thing.

Travis (17:41.483)
Hmm. It’s really good. from lived experience. Yeah. And then kind of adding onto that, what advice do you kind of have just for prospective foster parents or kicking the tires or looking over the fence, just trying to like, kind of figure out, should, this be something we engage with?

Courtney (17:42.937)
Amen.

Jessica Mathisen (17:48.118)
you

Jessica Mathisen (18:00.75)
think the biggest thing I would say is like get your feet wet and find a foster family within your community, whether that’s your church or your county, just someone that you could start helping. You could be those people. So for us, we knew that we wanted to foster, but then it took a while to be able to get all the classes done and all of the drug tests and physicals and all those things.

And so by the time we actually opened our home, it had been like a year since we had actually made the decision to say yes. And, you know, for us, it was just like, oh my goodness, like it just felt like we’re never going to be certified, you know, it’s taking forever. But in that time, we decided to join a care team of another family. And so we would bring them meals and then that family ended up, I think, moving away or something. So we joined another one. And then when we brought them meals, that family actually said, like, why don’t you just sit and eat with us?

And so we got to actually be in the home and kind of seeing them parent and they had bio kids as well. And so we got to see that it wasn’t like this mystical, you know, super, super mom, super dad thing, you know, like it was just like, these are normal people doing an extraordinary thing, but like, they’re not anything different. They’re not any different from us. Like they’re, they’re our friends and they’re our peers and we’re seeing, we’re seeing it in action. So I would say just.

Travis (19:08.46)
Ha.

Jessica Mathisen (19:22.775)
Find someone that you can come alongside so you can kind of see it up close and personal and understand what you’re really getting yourself into instead of just kind of jumping in blindly and being like, okay, we’re ready and not having any context or any frame of reference of what you’re really saying yes to.

Travis (19:29.719)
Hmm.

Travis (19:39.307)
Man, I feel like that was a great answer. And I feel like we could almost camp out there a little longer because I mean, I love what you said of you got going and then it was kind of this, there is a lot to the process and depending on what state you’re in, can be, you know, it’s who knows. I mean, I remember we’re in South Carolina and things have changed now, but I mean, at the time when we were getting licensed and ended up adopting later, I mean, it was like 14 months and, and, and that was with the termination of parental rights. And

I remember distinctly going through that journey of all of the things and the classes and the, know, we even knew the boys, but I felt this sort of just almost like, the system was overwhelming. It felt like, you know, right. And like, and just, it’s a government thing. So it’s, you know, there’s lost paperwork, does revolving caseworkers, all of that. And all of that cumulatively for me added up of like,

Jessica Mathisen (20:23.041)
there.

Jessica Mathisen (20:29.312)
yet.

Travis (20:34.955)
man, I’m not even at the stage yet of like the, I guess the hard and the real work. I’m, I’m just in the process and I’m right. And I’m already feeling like I’m, how do I even go forward? And so I think it’s important for people to know that, you know, it may take longer than you think, or it may, you may encounter more obstacles getting to that than you even thought. I love what Courtney, think what he, cause you have a good mantra for like,

Jessica Mathisen (20:39.928)
Yes. I’m just filling out forms.

Courtney (20:43.22)
And I’m already feeling like…

Jessica Mathisen (20:48.354)
Mm-hmm.

Travis (21:04.339)
Is it remember your why? mean, what would you say to that too of like?

Courtney (21:06.834)
Yeah. Yeah, the remember your why is more so like once you get going, because it’s harder than you think. But like these people beforehand, like Jessica said, I always suggest like get to know a foster family first, biggest advice, but then like, like said, serve a foster family serve. We have in our county, we have a support group that’s hosted by the county monthly.

Jessica Mathisen (21:15.734)
Thank

Courtney (21:32.788)
And I always tell these new people that are interested or ask me questions like, why don’t you get involved and volunteer there? Because then you’re going to have, and ours is five hours, so it’s five hours, which is a pretty long period of time, right? Five hours to go see this span of kids, a lot more teenagers and go hang with them because likely, you’re likely, in our county, you’re likely going to get a teenager. That’s going to be the need. So I want you to go spend some time with those teenagers, get to know them, see if that really is your gifting and if you really just love being with them. Cause I’ve seen so many families that…

Yep, they’re on board, they do it, they jump right in and then first placement and within a month they’re like, I can’t do this. We have gotten so many kids, again, mostly teens, but even youngers where they come to us from a first time foster family that just can’t do it anymore. And I’m like, oh, come on, can I mentor you? Can we do something to keep you going? And yes, yes. And then it’s like, remember your why, like why? Yeah, why did you start this to begin with and keep that why as your forefront? Because.

Jessica Mathisen (22:06.133)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jessica Mathisen (22:16.681)
Yeah, you were almost to the good part.

Travis (22:20.127)
You’re almost to the good part. It’s true.

Jessica Mathisen (22:22.913)
It takes more than 30 days!

Travis (22:25.303)
Yeah. Yeah.

Courtney (22:29.524)
It’s going to be hard and you need to remember that.

Jessica Mathisen (22:32.107)
Yeah.

Courtney (22:37.992)
Okay, well, one big question, Jessica, that we love to ask people, just thinking about foster care and these kiddos who just deserve so much and belonging and all that, but how would you finish this sentence? What kids in foster care really need is…

Jessica Mathisen (22:55.265)
I say love and relationship because everything, I’m sure you guys have heard this before, something like this, but if trauma happens in relationship, healing has to happen in relationship. just them being able to learn to trust and to open up and to communicate their wants and needs and even just their dislikes and likes, it has to happen in relationship. That’s what they need. It’s not a PlayStation or a new bike. I mean, those things are great, but.

Travis (23:24.714)
Ahaha, right.

Jessica Mathisen (23:25.203)
they’re not gonna teach them how to have healthy relationships with people, which is the stuff of life, you know? mean, so I would say love and relationship is the biggest thing.

Courtney (23:36.496)
their relationship is key. yeah, mean, thinking about getting them things. when I coach foster parents, that’s another thing I talk to them about, like, don’t treat them differently than you would any other kid in your home. Like, it’s not this new kid like, they need this and this and this and this and this and just pile them with stuff. Because for one, it’s not realistic. For two, that’s not teaching them what they really need in the relationship and safety and trust. And then when they go home, we don’t want them to go home to this if hopefully they go home and then they go home to a situation where

Jessica Mathisen (23:59.699)
Mm-hmm.

Travis (24:02.455)
Thanks

Courtney (24:04.83)
They’re not getting all this stuff all the time. Then it makes them resent, could be making them resentful towards their family or, you know, whole list of things. So really be mindful of, yes, like if they need a bike and your family bikes, get them a bike. Right? But it’s not just like, it’s their first week here. Let’s go get them all these brand new things. Like the relationship, focus on relationship.

Jessica Mathisen (24:06.761)
Yeah.

Jessica Mathisen (24:10.165)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica Mathisen (24:21.309)
Okay.

Yeah, yeah, that’s big.

Travis (24:26.603)
Yeah, reminds me the, you know, the book, when helping hurts and I kind of that, that whole thing, right. Of just like that, you know, the intention can be great. And I think like, there’s this natural thing, like, you know, all grandparents have it too, of just like, and we want to just give you, right. And it’s just the, it feels good too. And it feels good to make them happy in that moment. like, to your point, like it can be, you know, actually damaging down the line of, know, it’s not sustainable and kind of thing. So I love, love what you guys both said about relationship as the foundation. So.

Courtney (24:29.178)
Mm, yeah.

Jessica Mathisen (24:29.406)
Yes.

Travis (24:55.607)
Um, yeah, so very cool conversation, really helpful tips, Jessica, and just kind of hearing your heart on this. And, uh, so kind of, um, as we close this thing out, we’re definitely gonna have links to your podcast and your book. So it sounds like Courtney’s already talking about awesome books. So it’s great. Right. So, and then at America’s kids, have ongoing, you know, resources that are always on our website, which, you know, share the link on that.

Jessica Mathisen (25:08.512)
.

Courtney (25:13.256)
Great.

Travis (25:23.383)
Courtney, you know of any FosterCon is coming up this summer, we have guests coming up on that for all kinds of topics. So you’ll see that on our website, anything else to add Courtney on resources or.

Courtney (25:35.196)
No, I don’t think so. Like I said, this will be our newest and latest resource on our website because I’m going to put in a request to add it now. I really do encourage foster families to get it and read it, read it with your bio kids, adopted kids, foster kids, grandparent, grandkids, anybody that is around kids and care, which is more people than you think. I a lot of people think, you know, this is something out there, we don’t touch it. And it’s like, you know what, if you really take a little zoom out and you look at your community, you probably have engaged in the last year.

Jessica Mathisen (25:38.635)
Yay!

Jessica Mathisen (25:54.611)
Mm-hmm.

Courtney (26:04.318)
with a kid who doesn’t care and you maybe don’t even know it. So it’s something that we definitely need to make less taboo and more conversation so we can all support them better.

Jessica Mathisen (26:05.585)
Yeah, for sure.

Jessica Mathisen (26:13.287)
Yeah. Honestly, I think just remembering that, you know, people will say like, man, it takes a special person to do that with fostering. I think sometimes people will count themselves out because they don’t want to or feel like they cannot welcome kids into their home.

Travis (26:14.551)
All right, Jessica, any closing thoughts to bring us out to the whole space?

Jessica Mathisen (26:38.843)
And honestly, like for some people, for some seasons, for some reason, they cannot welcome kids into their home and that’s okay. Not everybody is supposed to. And I think the biggest thing to remember though is that everybody can do something. And whether it’s investing in the kids’ lives by, like I said, taking them to the movies or taking them out to eat or whatever, whether it’s bringing a meal. We had this incredible business owner in our town who had a landscaping company and he came and did our lawn one time.

Oh, thank you. You know, so just everyone has something that they can offer and it may seem out of the box, but it could still be a blessing. And so just considering the fact that you may not be called to be a foster parent and have kids in your home, but there’s something that you can do to encourage vulnerable children and families.

Courtney (27:09.652)
You

Courtney (27:27.878)
Yes. Yep.

Travis (27:27.94)
closing words. Thanks for taking us out with that and great to have you on the podcast today.

Courtney (27:32.596)
Yeah, thank you.

Jessica Mathisen (27:32.658)
Thank you so much for having me.