

In this episode of the Foster Friendly podcast, hosts Brian and Courtney engage in a heartfelt conversation with Danielle Coates, who shares her unique experiences growing up in a foster and adoptive family. Danielle discusses the challenges and joys of being a biological sibling to foster children, the feelings of invisibility and replacement she faced, and the importance of supporting biological kids in foster families. The conversation also delves into practical strategies for parents to engage their biological children in discussions about fostering and adoption, emphasizing the need for open communication and validation of their feelings.
Daniela Coats shares valuable insights on the experiences of biological children in foster care, emphasizing the importance of connection and visibility. She discusses the emotional challenges faced by these children, including feelings of invisibility and grief due to the transient nature of foster care. Daniela also introduces her children’s book, ‘The Day Lily Turned Uninvisible,’ which addresses these themes and aims to foster understanding and empathy. The discussion highlights the need for community support and the significance of acknowledging the feelings of all family members involved in foster care.
Courtney’s ebook: Navigating Foster Care with Your Children: A Support Guide to Help You and Your Family Through the Journey
TRANSCRIPT:
Brian (00:03.148)
Welcome to the Foster Friendly podcast, a place where we talk about foster care, but also about creating communities that care. If you’re passionate about supporting foster families, curious about how you can make a difference or simply looking for inspiration to build a culture of belonging, you’re in the right place. Together we’ll explore stories, solutions, and strategies to connect care everywhere. Hi, I’m Brian Mavis with my co-host Courtney Williams.
Courtney (00:08.317)
If you’re passionate about supporting foster families, curious about how you can make a difference, simply looking for inspiration to build a culture of belonging, you’re at the right place. Together we’ll look for stories, solutions, strategies to connect care and support. Hi, I’m Brian Davis from the Nauvoo, Fort DuWayne. I thought I would you pick up a minute to introduce us to our guest today and tell us why Victor’s story is so special.
Brian (00:30.082)
Hi Courtney, would you take a minute to introduce us to our guest today and tell us what makes her story so special?
Courtney (00:38.603)
Yeah, welcome for thank you for being here today. I am so excited about this conversation because I feel like this is a conversation people want to have. People fostering people looking to foster care, they’re often curious about their biological kids or the kids that are already in their home. So that’s what this conversation is about. Today we have Danielle Coates with us. She is the founder of with siblings, an organization that exists to support the birth children in foster and adoptive homes by equipping parents and professionals through training and resources.
Brian (00:46.851)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (00:51.468)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (01:07.259)
Her parents fostered when she was a child and eventually adopted her youngest sibling. Having grown up in a home that fostered and adopted, Daniella was a temporary sibling to many children. Now, she and her husband have children both by birth and adoption. Daniella is also a licensed master social worker in the state of Texas and is the author of a book, The Day Lilly Turned Uninvisible, a children’s book written specifically for biological kids in foster families. So thanks for joining us, Daniella. We are excited for this conversation.
Daniela Coats (01:36.403)
Yeah, I’m so happy to be here.
Brian (01:40.654)
So Danielle, as Courtney mentioned, this is something that a lot of people are curious about. we both, Courtney and I also have bio kids who have been foster siblings. so we’ve lived through this. so just tell us a little bit more about your story.
Daniela Coats (02:05.191)
Yeah, when I was seven or eight or so, my parents kind of brought forth this idea, like, hey, let’s add kids to the family. And this is partly because of my dad’s involvement with an organization that does like camps for children and foster care. And so he kind of saw the need in that way. And he was like, we’ve got to do something. And so my parents have a really big heart and they decided we’re going to go ahead and just, we’re going to adopt. And that was the plan from the very beginning.
Brian (02:13.614)
Mm-mm.
Brian (02:22.638)
Hmm.
Daniela Coats (02:34.651)
And we went to that match adoption through foster care. And of course, that’s a lot of hurry up and wait. So we did that. We waited for quite a few years. So when I was 10, the first set of kiddos came to live with us. Very long story there. didn’t end up, we didn’t end up adopting those kiddos. They ended up being placed elsewhere after they’d been with us for a year. But that was kind of the start of my journey. And we did take some time off because that was a really hard transition because we had intended on adopting them and they had been with our family for a year.
Brian (02:52.554)
Mm-hmm
Daniela Coats (03:03.576)
But so we took a little bit of time off and then we jumped back in a couple years later and fostered for about the next eight or so years. then adopting my sister was at the very end.
Brian (03:13.825)
Okay, awesome. Man, a lot of that resonates with our own story. So tell me, as a bio sibling to all these kids that are in your life for a year or maybe just short term, do you have any favorite stories?
Courtney (03:14.887)
to.
Daniela Coats (03:32.951)
some that are funny and some that aren’t and some that are sweet and some that aren’t, right? Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. What, what are the, what does the crowd want? a sweet story that I remember was when the first set of kiddos were with us and I’m the oldest in my family of origin. I’ve got two biological brothers that are younger than me. And then when these kiddos came in, they were all younger than me. There were three of them. they kind of mixed.
Brian (03:36.782)
Right? What mood are you in to tell it, right?
Courtney (03:38.697)
Yeah, sounds right.
Courtney (03:46.557)
you
Brian (03:50.126)
Hmm.
Daniela Coats (04:02.117)
ages with my brothers, but I was still always the oldest. And so there was this little girl, like a toddler. And I can remember one time I had my own room. We actually just moved from a Northern state to a Southern state. So the housing market was drastically different, way cheaper, way more house for our, well, I say our, my parents’ money. It wasn’t my money, who am I kidding? So I ended up getting my own room. And I remember I woke up one day and I had thrown my, you know, throw pillows on the floor the night before. And I woke up one morning and that little toddler had
Brian (04:05.378)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (04:17.945)
mm-hmm
Hahaha
Daniela Coats (04:31.965)
brought herself into my room and was sleeping on the floor next to my throw pillows just because she wanted to be close to me. She had her own room. She actually had her biological sibling in that room with her, but she wanted to be close to me because that was the relationship that we had. And so that’s a sweet memory that I have of that time. I also have other memories of lots of other things, but I really wanted them to lose this game of what horse or like Yahtzee.
Brian (04:45.291)
Mm.
Brian (04:49.456)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Daniela Coats (05:00.839)
Why do they always seem to win? I just want to beat them. know, so mean, all that kind of stuff too. Tons of memories.
Brian (05:03.246)
Yeah, it’s funny, kind of that natural sibling rivalry things. And yeah, we had a young man who was older than our girls. He was 17 and they were a few years younger than him. But, you know, they would tease him about like, man, you need to take a shower or, you know, knock his hat off his head. so, and it was all, it was just like, it felt so normal.
Courtney (05:10.666)
Siblings.
Daniela Coats (05:11.216)
Right.
Daniela Coats (05:25.363)
Right, Right.
Courtney (05:25.368)
Yeah.
Courtney (05:33.085)
Mm-hmm.
Daniela Coats (05:33.095)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (05:33.112)
That was, yeah.
Daniela Coats (05:35.675)
Yeah, so lots of those.
Brian (05:37.878)
Yeah, like you said, kind of the sweet stuff, the competitive stuff, the things that aren’t the hard stuff. Yeah, that all feels like a lot of it’s just kind of normal life. But some of it still is a little unusual because it’s foster care.
Daniela Coats (05:42.855)
The hard stuff.
Courtney (05:56.178)
Yeah.
Daniela Coats (05:56.645)
Right, yeah, talking with friends or, you know, who aren’t on the foster care adoption journey, you share something and whether that’s as a child or as a foster adoptive parent, you share something like, yeah, yeah, I have that too. And I’m like, to this, not to this extent, you don’t. Yes, there is some of it that is totally within the realm of like, we’re just humans and we’re just kids and we’re just whatever. But there’s also this uniqueness to it, too.
Brian (06:09.742)
Right, right, yes.
Courtney (06:10.513)
to you. Yeah.
Brian (06:22.636)
Yeah, there is. And yet a lot of it seems like said normal, but then intensified. Yeah.
Courtney (06:22.801)
Yes.
Daniela Coats (06:28.061)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (06:29.895)
Yeah. Well, you know, Danielle, this is like one of the biggest reservations people have. I get this question as a recruiter. I get two questions all the time. I could never do it because I’ll get too attached. Or what about my kids? Right. And so this is a topic that people just, again, want to know about. They want to hear people’s perspective. They want to hear experiences. Sometimes it helps people kind of relieve that fear. Sometimes it doesn’t. But you have a lot to say just because you have that lived experience, as I know my kids, as they grow older, they share with people a lot.
Daniela Coats (06:42.835)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (06:59.107)
ask them questions. So just tell us a little bit more about you growing up as a foster sister. What was it like? What were some of the feelings that you had in that role?
Daniela Coats (07:08.24)
Yeah, so it kind of depends. It’s interesting because my story lasted for a long time as far as being a sibling to kids in care, because it was like eight or so years, really 10 years if you count from the very beginning to when my sister’s adoption was finalized. And so from the very beginning, when those first set of kids came to live with us, that was probably the hardest season. If I had to pick a time.
because I’m adjusting to a lot of things. These kids have moved in. It feels like my world’s been flipped upside down. A lot of things. mean, if you think about like, I this would have been 20 years ago now. Trauma informed anything 20 years ago is not what it is today. So people just in general didn’t quite understand as much now as they do like in a societal level. But even just my parents didn’t feel like they really actually knew what to expect. And
Brian (07:51.37)
Mm-hmm.
Daniela Coats (08:03.911)
They certainly didn’t know what to expect for us. So that being said, these kids move in and things like I tell the story sometimes where my parents did a visit with these kids first because it was an adoptive placement from the beginning. That was the intention. And so my parents met these kids first. I remember my dad, my parents coming home and kind of telling us about how the visit went and sharing how when they were about to leave, one of the kids had said, hey, dad, catch and threw my dad a football. And when my dad shared that story, I’m like, excuse me.
Courtney (08:33.949)
You
Daniela Coats (08:36.315)
This is not your dad. You just met him. Like he’s my dad. And with that, and this is my story, but it extends obviously to birth kids, then becomes these questions of, well, if he is his dad, and if all of a sudden, like the stranger can become a child, like what does that mean about my significance in the family? Am I significant then if a stranger can come in and just automatically be a child of the family when I’ve?
Courtney (08:37.917)
You’re a dad.
Daniela Coats (09:04.999)
been here for 10 years. So there’s kind of questions like, what is my role then? And how meaningful am I if this relationship is that fluid? So there were challenges there for sure of just, this doesn’t feel right, this doesn’t feel fair, feeling like I’m being replaced, I’m being pushed out. So it was a really hard season and not just in our family because my parents had their times of not necessarily responding the best, which they’ve reflected later and said,
Brian (09:09.422)
Hmm
Brian (09:33.784)
Thanks
Daniela Coats (09:34.975)
That was a point of regret for me. I shouldn’t have responded that way. And I’m like, I didn’t even remember that memory. You have it locked in your mind. You’re holding the shame in that. I’m not holding any shame over you. Anyway, so just those kinds of challenges where, you know, we’re really involved in our community. And I’m excited, though. This is another piece I haven’t mentioned. I’m excited. I am on board. Yes, let’s adopt. I’m so excited to have a sister.
Brian (09:36.59)
You’re holding the shame in that I’m not holding any shame over you
Courtney (09:39.692)
Yeah.
Daniela Coats (10:04.379)
And yet, when I’m introducing them to friends or our community, all of a sudden things are changing where people are literally not saying hi to me anymore. Courtney, if you’ve, know, if this might remind you of some things, in that book, people aren’t saying hi to me anymore. Like my dad has said he can remember when literally we’re all standing there together. People walk up.
Courtney (10:17.021)
Mm-hmm, right you.
Brian (10:25.433)
and
Daniela Coats (10:28.861)
greet the kids that are new to our family and don’t say a word to me and then they just walk away. So like I was quite literally just feeling very invisible and forgotten in that initial transitional time. Now they ended up leaving our home and that was a lot of grief related to that because it’s very unexpected in lot of ways. We were trying to figure out how this could work long-term and
Brian (10:46.158)
And so that was very unexpected in a of ways. We were trying to figure out how this, you know, could work long term. And we were giving them like, hey, you gotta pack up their stuff. They’re moving them somewhere else. And that was really hard for the kids too, of just like the confusion of how do I reconcile that? Like, yes, it’s been really hard, but we’ve been siblings. And, you know, so there were a lot of things that played into the grief of that.
Daniela Coats (10:52.903)
We were given a week like, hey, you got to pack up their stuff there. We’re moving them somewhere else. And that was really hard as a kid too, of just like the confusion of how do I reconcile that? Like, yes, it’s been really hard, but we’ve been siblings and, you know, so there are a lot of things that played into the grief of that. And then, but I kind of consider that as one piece of my story, the grief and the adjusting. And then the latter part of my story comes when we were just fostering, just straight fostering.
Brian (11:11.906)
And then, but I kind of considered that as one piece of my story, the grief and the adjusting. And then the latter part of my story comes when we were just fostering.
I don’t know
Daniela Coats (11:22.003)
And that was easier for a lot of reasons. And I don’t really know why I’ve kind of tried to mull that over. What was the reason that that season was easier? I think one, it was because we were fostering and not adopting. And there is a little bit of a difference in like this is temporary. This is not forever. You know, I can do anything for six months a year, you know, so it feels a little bit different in those terms. Maybe it’s because I was a little bit older, you know, I was a teenager. So maybe my perspective had changed. I don’t I don’t know. But there were definitely some very different things. But.
Brian (11:50.672)
But that being said, as a teen I still said, I am never doing that. I am never fostering, I am never adopting. I have paid my dues, if you will, and I have served this population. You know, I’ll become a social worker. That’s how I can use my experience for, to continue helping kids. But absolutely not my help. I would say that didn’t fit in today. I’m a teenager. And so I think I just felt.
Daniela Coats (11:51.483)
That being said, as a teen, I still said, I am never doing this. I am never fostering. I am never adopting. I have paid my dues, if you will, right? Like I have served this population, you know, and I’ll become a social worker. That’s how I can use my, you my experience for, to continue helping kids, but absolutely not in my home. Obviously that didn’t, that didn’t stick, but that’s what I said as a teen.
Courtney (12:00.829)
you
Courtney (12:15.203)
Yeah.
Daniela Coats (12:15.619)
And so I think that just tells you a little bit on like my journey, some of the feelings there that like I felt like it was important, but I also at the same time didn’t want any part of it as an adult because I felt like I already knew the sacrifice. Right. I knew that it was hard and I knew the emotional toll and the emotional weight. And so that’s a brief synopsis of my journey.
Brian (12:34.306)
Okay, so let’s talk about then what what happened I mean you go from at times feeling replaced invisible And then you’re you’re telling yourself consciously
I’ve served my time in this space and then something changes. I you grow up and here you are now, back in it. So what happened?
Daniela Coats (12:50.385)
Yeah.
Daniela Coats (12:54.717)
Mm-hmm.
Daniela Coats (13:00.401)
Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, there’s a lot of things you can’t see, right? Things that you can’t measure. Along the way, there’s healing and maybe miraculous healing because I was just so stone cold to the idea of ever fostering or adopting. I said, maybe I’ll foster one day when like I have bio kids and they’re grown, but I’m never adopting. I mean, it was a hard line in the sand, never crossing that kind of thing. But when I…
Brian (13:12.75)
Hmm.
Daniela Coats (13:29.491)
kind of jumped into the field of social work. I was working for a child placing agency and I was recruiting foster parents and training foster parents and constantly seeing the need. There’s still kids that need homes. And my husband and had been married for a couple of years and so we didn’t have any bio kids and it was just kind of like, okay, why not me? I would make a great foster parent. I’ve got so much experience, so much education. I would be a great foster parent. And so we can do this.
Brian (13:42.978)
Mm.
Brian (13:53.452)
So much experience, so much education.
Daniela Coats (13:58.897)
And so we started small, we said, you know, we’ll take a couple of kiddos and then, you know how that works. One kiddo turned to three kiddos, turned to adoption, turned to a sibling, turned to another adoption. It just, you know, it’s how that works. Yeah, yeah, the factors there. Yeah, so I mean, it wasn’t like a, there was definitely a specific day I can remember calling my dad and I was crying, not in like a grief kind of crying, but in a, wow, I want to foster and.
Courtney (14:07.453)
you
Brian (14:08.686)
trying to get another adoptive.
Courtney (14:10.781)
Multiplication. Foster care.
Brian (14:13.998)
You
Daniela Coats (14:27.623)
this is such a night and day change, you know, from what it used to be.
Brian (14:30.412)
Wow. Yeah, it’s amazing how God can change our wants.
Courtney (14:35.815)
Yeah, yeah. Thank you for sharing your experiences and your feelings. know everything you said have resonated with me because of the kids I have in my care. I have nine children, six still in the home, and we’re still an active foster home. Our current placement right now, sometimes it’s different even, the age of the kiddo, but he’s the age of three of my kids. Between three of my kids, he’s a teenager, I’ve got teenagers in the home. A couple months in, he started calling.
me, mom and my husband, dad to them, not to us, but he’d be like, Hey, what time is dad coming home or when his mom gonna be back or, you know, just questions like that. We didn’t know it because we didn’t hear it. But our kids, you know, would talk to us in private and be like, Hey, he’s calling you guys mom and dad. And that bothers me. And I’m thankful that we have trained them or they’ve been around us enough to know like, Hey, come to us. When these hard feelings come up, we want to talk to you about those feelings, those thoughts you’re having and help walk through with you. And that’s something that you do too, for for
Daniela Coats (15:05.363)
Hmm.
Daniela Coats (15:17.565)
Yeah.
Courtney (15:31.057)
foster and adoptive parents, you coach parents. And so what are some things that you specifically coach parents around through your social media and then also through the trainings that you do?
Daniela Coats (15:40.443)
Yeah, so I have these, well, it’s five currently, but I have a sixth training coming out in next year. And so those topics just relate to how do we support them? Kind of generally speaking, whether things in research that we know that, you know, have been, that are helpful, how do we help them navigate grief and loss? And because I have a therapy background, I pull a lot of tangible things as far as that goes, activities and whatnot.
Brian (15:48.012)
next year. And so those topics just relate to how we support them, kind of generally speaking, everything that research that we know that, you know, that are helpful. I’m helping navigate recent loss. And because I have a therapy background, I know a lot of tangible things as far as that goes, activities and whatnot. I also know that sometimes parents are concerned about like
Daniela Coats (16:09.745)
I also know that sometimes parents are concerned about like, do I encourage a sibling relationship? Like, what about when my bio kid can’t stand my, you know, kids that are in care? How do we help them to do that? What about birth order? That’s one from the very beginning, I think. I don’t know if you guys get that question too. It’s not just, you know, how will this impact my bio kids, but also what about birth order? Should I disrupt it? Am I supposed to keep it? And so about that too. Now I don’t specifically offer like coaching services to parents.
Brian (16:12.718)
for a sibling relationship? Like, what about when my bio-kids can’t stand my, you know, kids that are in care? How do we help them to do that? What about birth order? That’s one of them.
Brian (16:26.99)
know, how will this impact my biopsy, but also how important it is to reject it, I’m supposed to keep it. And so about that too, I don’t specifically offer like coaching services to Karen. So trainings is really the way that that mostly happens, except for obviously in the play therapy space, there’s a more working with families. But what we see in the research, and this is research done by Dr. Jana Hunsley, is that there’s these things that pop up as predictive factors in the experiences of those kids. So these things that, these make a difference.
Daniela Coats (16:38.771)
So trainings is really the way that that mostly happens, except for obviously in the play therapy space, there’s a lot more working with families. But what we see in the research, and this is research done by Dr. Jana Hunsley, is that there’s these things that pop up as predictive factors in the experiences of birth kids. So these things that, these make a difference, these predictive factors. They will predict kind of how, how kids view their experiences. And some of those are communication, how are parents communicating with their kids?
Brian (16:56.944)
these critical factors. will predict kind of how how kids view their experiences. And some of those are communication. How are parents communicating with their kids? Are they sharing enough information with them so they can kind of understand and catch the vision, if you will, and know the why behind it? And that’s ongoing communication from the beginning, all the way throughout transitions, the end, whatever it might look like. So communication is a huge thing for parents.
Daniela Coats (17:07.431)
Are they sharing enough information with them so that they can kind of understand and catch the vision, if you will, and know the why behind it? And that’s ongoing communication from the beginning all the way throughout transitions at the end, whatever it might look like. So communication is a huge thing for parents one on one time, which that one seems obvious. I think we all know that this is important. But logistically, when you have nine or six or
Brian (17:26.984)
one-on-one time, which that one seems obvious. think we all know that this is important, but logistically when you have nine or six or two children, it can still be really challenging to find time for that. And so talking with parents around different ways that that one-on-one time can happen. And then one soapbox that I get on a lot is making sure that they have a voice, that biopics have a voice, because
Daniela Coats (17:34.547)
to children, it can still be really challenging to find time for that. so talking with parents around different ways that that one-on-one time can happen. And then one soapbox that I get on a lot is making sure that they have a voice, that bio kids have a voice because we might say like, hey, do you want to foster? Hey, should we take another placement? Hey, should we adopt these kiddos? And if we ask our bio kids that and they say no, no, I’d.
Brian (17:53.262)
We might say, like, hey, do you want to foster? Hey, should we take him to the hospital? Hey, should we adopt a student home? And if we ask our bio kids that and they say no, no, I’m
Daniela Coats (18:02.899)
I do not want to foster. No, I do not want them here longer than however long. And we say, thanks, we’re gonna go ahead and do this anyway. What does that say about the bio kids voice, the power they have in their voice? It doesn’t seem like it holds any agency. And I know it’s a tricky place as parents because I often give this example. If like my kid comes to me at breakfast and says, I want hot chocolate, a candy bar.
Brian (18:05.169)
not want them here.
Brian (18:18.158)
they have and their voices doesn’t seem like it holds for the agency. And so that’s the, and I know it’s a tricky place, this parents, because I think in this example, it’s like,
Brian (18:30.744)
candy bar and cake for reference.
Daniela Coats (18:31.823)
and cake and for breakfast, I’m like, absolutely not. I don’t care what their voice said, they’re not getting that for breakfast, it’s not happening. And so I understand that there is this balance as parents, we can’t give our kids everything or not give them these things. There’s times where we have to be uncomfortable, we have to serve others. And yet if we’re giving them a voice, that voice should hold agency. So those are some of the things that I definitely talk with parents about and that’s on social media a lot too.
Brian (18:36.27)
They’re not getting that for breakfast. It’s not happening. And so I understand that there is this balance here. So we can’t give or give everything or not.
Brian (18:56.861)
So I want to camp out here a little bit longer and so I want you to I want you to go back and remember what you were sharing earlier about being a kid who felt invisible, who felt replaced
maybe felt like didn’t have a voice. You have your parents now later on reflecting back and apologizing for things that you don’t remember. Take all that and then mash it up now with your adult professionally trained brain. Are there some questions that you could give adults? Right now, there are parents out there listening to this. We have bio kids.
Daniela Coats (19:18.674)
Right.
Brian (19:39.99)
Are there some questions that you think are applicable to virtually anybody who could say, ask your bio kids these questions that would be helpful for them?
Daniela Coats (19:52.731)
yeah, and I have like every month I send out a newsletter, if you will, and I include four different conversation starters in those every month. yeah, so sure, let me pull some out. I like to do ones that are fun too. like teen ones, but also kid ones. And also keeping in mind, it could be a question you ask, but it could also be a, draw a picture of. So it could be like, tell me about something you’re really proud about our family.
Brian (20:02.196)
okay.
Brian (20:06.072)
Yeah.
Brian (20:15.66)
Mm-hmm.
Daniela Coats (20:21.351)
for, you tell us something that, you know, you feel proud about our family. It could be draw a picture of what it’s like when a new kid joins the family. Draw a picture of our family before we started fostering and draw a picture of our family now. What’s the hardest thing about our family? What’s the best part about being part of our family? What’s something you wish you could change about our family?
Brian (20:37.016)
Hmm.
Daniela Coats (20:48.519)
I mean, I could honestly go on, but I was at like seven or so. There’s just so many things we could be asking our kids to check in with them to just make it a safe space because that’s the other kicker. We can ask the questions all day long, but if we respond to them with either correction or kind of like, you shouldn’t feel that way and try to almost dissuade them from feeling that, then that actually.
Courtney (20:50.629)
Yeah.
Brian (20:52.759)
Yeah.
Daniela Coats (21:13.051)
is almost more harmful. should have just not asked the question because now we’ve created a place where the relationship isn’t even safe to share those things. So that’s the other piece of apparent as a parent is, okay, if I’m asking these questions or inviting them to share with me about these certain things that I need to be willing to hear whatever that answer is.
Brian (21:29.462)
Yeah, yeah, that’s man, that’s so good. So yeah, go in with the idea of connecting and not correcting. I love that. So along similar lines then, so not for parents, but you mentioned like as a kid, you meet your friends and they would talk to these foster siblings and they ignore you. So what advice would you have to say
Daniela Coats (21:36.839)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (21:37.063)
Definitely.
Daniela Coats (21:55.442)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (21:58.958)
to others who are kind of the next ring out of people who are listening and saying, hey, I’m not fostering, but I’ve got some family who does, I got some friends or neighbors who do. What advice would you give them?
Daniela Coats (22:15.729)
Yeah, mean, one of the like, like someone things that shows up in the research is that bio kids often feel invisible. And again, it’s not just home, that’s often community and other things, too. And so my plea for anybody, honestly, like my big hope long term for bio kids is that they are seen and supported. So the question then for that outer ring of people would be, how can you help bio kids to feel seen?
Brian (22:41.336)
Mm-hmm.
Daniela Coats (22:41.363)
whether that’s making sure you say hi to them, whether that’s, you know, if you’re an organization that’s maybe bringing a basket of things when a new kiddo is placed, can you throw something in there for bio kids? Like I know when my biological brothers were born, people would bring balloons and stuff for my parents, but they also brought me like coloring things. And so how can we do that for bio kids in this setting as well, just to help them to feel seen and know that they’re valuable.
Brian (22:44.56)
Thank
Daniela Coats (23:10.387)
So those kinds of things. Also, I can remember growing up, we had a couple of families in our community who did invite us over and kind of let us have some special time. And I remember, you know, being the oldest and having some of those privileges at their house and just getting to do just certain things. And they were people that were able to hear and listen because they did have a background in foster care and adoption. had some relatives who had. So they really understood the hard and they felt safe. So being a safe person,
Brian (23:23.328)
Mm-hmm
Daniela Coats (23:39.043)
seeing them where they’re at, being able to hear the hard and yeah, just not turning it into where their only identity is as a bio kid, because that’s another thing too, is people who would ask me things as a kid, be, how’s your sibling? What’s it like having new kids in the home? And it stopped being about me and it became who I was because of them. And so that was a challenging thing too.
Brian (23:46.082)
Wow
Courtney (24:05.565)
Great.
Brian (24:05.783)
man, what a great insight. I love that. Yeah, just asking kids normal things about school and being a teenager or whatever it is, dates and sports and music. Yeah, that’s so good.
Courtney (24:15.229)
.
Daniela Coats (24:15.482)
Yeah.
Courtney (24:21.149)
Yeah, I love it. Our foster kiddos often have a CASA and then a GAL or a CFY. They often have all these people around them. And I feel like sometimes other people don’t realize that. They don’t know that, they’ve got us and our friends and our church community or whatever it is. But then they also have all these other layers of people. We had a friend over one time, one of my friends was over. at the time, foster daughter came home. She was a teenager. She came home with her CASA. And CASA had taken her to
ice skating and offer coffee and they’d done all these fun things. And my friend was kind of listening and eventually they left and she kind of says, like, what does that make your kids feel when she walks in the door and has all this stuff? And I was like, that’s a good question. And so she started to say, hey, would you let me know when she’s going out there, can I come pick up your teenage daughter and take her out for coffee at the same time and do something? I was like, that was just so sweet that she was able to recognize that in the moment. And I didn’t have to even ask, you know. Yeah.
Daniela Coats (25:03.187)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (25:03.298)
Mmm.
Daniela Coats (25:12.613)
What a gift.
Brian (25:12.992)
Mmm. Mmm.
Daniela Coats (25:17.351)
Yes, that’s such a gift. I love that.
Brian (25:18.048)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (25:20.679)
Yeah, so as foster parents, fostering is hard. It’s hard physically, emotionally, socially, I would say, but also for our kids, sometimes even more so for our kids because they don’t have the dull brains that we have, like we kind of mentioned, they don’t have that to process through. And so they don’t know how to process physically, emotionally, socially through all these changes. So how can we support them best through the grief and the loss as well? Because kids are coming and going and sometimes they form those connections and the next thing they know, they’re gone.
How can we help them through that?
Daniela Coats (25:49.883)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I always give the caveat, well, if you have concerns about your child, reach out to a professional near you. So that’s one thing I always say, right? Like if you honestly have concerns, this grief is too much for me. I don’t know what to do or they are having a really hard time adjusting. I am not sure how I can help them. Like I always encourage parents to find someone who’s close to them, who’s able to really help them through that.
Courtney (25:56.957)
you
Daniela Coats (26:19.719)
But as far as like grief and loss, there’s this push-pull, because as parents were experiencing probably some level of grief and loss, and even if it was like a really challenging placement, know, maybe it was a really hard season, there’s still this level of loss that comes with that. And so it’s this balance of allowing our kids to see us grieve, if that is really, you know, authentic to how we’re experiencing it, because if we’re, if they’re
Brian (26:46.734)
Because if we’re not breathing in front of them, then what does that communicate about those feelings? Are they okay feelings that feel like when the first set of kids left our homes around Thanksgiving time? And so for the first time that I could ever remember, we to restaurant for Thanksgiving because it not within my parents’ emotional ability to.
Daniela Coats (26:48.305)
If we’re not grieving in front of them, then what does that communicate about those feelings of grief? And are they OK feelings to, you know, feel like when the first set of kids left our home, it was around Thanksgiving time. And so we for the first time that I could ever remember, we went to a restaurant for Thanksgiving because it was just not within my parents emotional ability to do the regular right to do the regular thing. And so just being OK with grieving as a parent is one thing.
There’s lots of tangible ideas. I’ve, like I said, I’ve got a training on grief and loss. So there’s like some books. There’s a book by Todd Parr called the Goodbye Book. And it’s really great for younger kids. There’s a fish that was in the tank and then all of a sudden the fish isn’t there. And so just talks around like, these are some of the ways you might feel. And a lot of books on grief are specific to death and dying. And so I’ve gone through to kind of look like, what are some of those that are not related to
Brian (27:28.43)
really great for younger kids. There’s a fish that leaves the cage, and then all of sudden the fish isn’t there. And so, just walks around with…
Brian (27:41.959)
Some of those that are not related to justice.
Daniela Coats (27:43.697)
just death and dying and this was one of those. It never explicitly talks about that because we know there’s so much loss. There’s anticipatory grief where we’re fostering. We know that kids are going to leave our home. We know that’s the goal of foster care. And so helping our kids to know from the very beginning, that’s part of the really the why at the start of helping them to understand this is why we’re doing it.
Brian (27:47.444)
about that because you know there’s so much law. There’s anticipatory where.
Brian (27:56.258)
that kids are going to leave our home.
So helping our kids to know from the very beginning, that’s part of the really the why at the start of helping them to understand this is why we’re doing it and this is how it can look and the plan is for them to go home because if we don’t trust them for the logistics of that, then that’s gonna blindside them completely. So that would be a really important thing as far as, know, free. And then the-
Daniela Coats (28:08.561)
and this is how it can look and the plan is for them to go home because if we don’t prep them for the logistics of that, then that’s going to blindside them completely. So that would be a really important thing as far as grief. And then, like I said, the anticipatory grief too of realizing that they might anticipate that loss from the very beginning. And maybe that creates challenges where maybe you’re seeing they’re not wanting to connect with siblings or they’re not wanting to get too close or whatever it might be because they’re afraid of this.
Brian (28:22.414)
like I the anticipatory group too of realizing that they might anticipate that loss from the very beginning. Maybe that creates challenges where maybe you’re seeing they’re not wanting to connect with siblings or they’re not wanting to get too close or whatever, maybe because they’re afraid of this loss. Or even for us, when the kids left our home, there was this ambiguous loss because they were no longer, they’re alive, they’re out there somewhere.
Daniela Coats (28:37.779)
this loss or even for us when the kids left our home there was this ambiguous loss because they were no longer They were they’re alive. They’re out there somewhere, but they’re no longer in contact with us And so there was a lot that we had and going through that season We just we tried we did our best, know parents could maybe allow their kid to write a letter They wish they could send or draw a picture they wish they could send but obviously being really clear that it’s not something you’re actually able to give to them
Brian (28:51.918)
that we had going through that season. We tried, we did our best to maybe allow their kid to write a letter they wish they could send, or drop a letter they wish they could send, but obviously it’s really clear that it’s not something you’re actually able to give to them. But there’s lots of tangible ideas like that, having a day all about the kiddo that…
Daniela Coats (29:07.715)
But there’s lots of tangible ideas like that, like having a day all about the kiddo that left the home. Like, did they love cheeseburgers and, you know, hot chips for dinner? Have that for dinner, play their favorite game, do their favorite activity. So I just encourage parents to use play, especially with the younger kids, but even for teens, to help them to process whatever those feelings might be when kiddos leave and just throw out the process.
Courtney (29:16.847)
you
Brian (29:23.579)
So I just think it’s good to play especially for kids who need a team to help them to process whatever those feelings might be.
That’s so good. You mentioned a book and you’ve written one yourself. tell us about that. What’s the title? Why’d you write it? What are your hopes for it?
Courtney (29:35.461)
It is great.
Daniela Coats (29:40.007)
Yes.
Courtney (29:40.285)
Yeah.
Daniela Coats (29:46.331)
Yeah, so my book is called The Day Lily Turned Uninvisible. This is obviously kind of playing on the fact that bio kids often feel invisible. And so it tells the story of a bio child in a foster family. And this is not the first placement the family has had. And I wanted to make that pretty clear. This isn’t necessarily a kid who doesn’t understand how the system works. She does. But there’s something different about this placement. And so
Brian (30:06.85)
Hmm.
Daniela Coats (30:10.759)
She is really excited. She’s on board. She thinks this is important. And yet when this kiddo moves in, she’s feeling invisible. Her friends are not playing tag with her anymore. Her parents aren’t able to kind of participate in those nightly rhythms the same. Other people are looking at the things this kiddo in care is doing and applauding them and saying, how helpful they are. And this bio child is thinking, I literally just did the same thing and you didn’t.
say anything to me about it. And so she’s feeling invisible. Like, why are people not noticing me? Maybe I’ve turned invisible because this is a kid’s book. So why would it not be comical like that? So she sees what she can do to turn herself on invisible. And fortunately, she has a mom who is empathetic and attuned and notices that something’s up here and is able to provide that response of just like, my goodness. Yes, this is I understand this is hurtful that I could see that.
Brian (30:47.542)
Mm-hmm.
Daniela Coats (31:06.963)
provide some insight that says this is why people aren’t trying to hurt you. They’re trying to be really welcoming. And then the mom is able to say, saw you when you did these things. I saw when you sacrificed in this way. I saw when you, and so I’ve had some parents reach out to me and say, hey, my kid wants to know why did the book end this way? You know, we see kind of an upturn things maybe.
Brian (31:31.736)
maybe seem a little more positive. Why did this happen? My kid wants to know. I said, well, I left it open ended on purpose. Did the parents reach out to their community and say,
Daniela Coats (31:32.317)
seem little more positive. Why did this happen? My kid wants to know. I said, well, I left it open-ended on purpose. Did the parents reach out to their community and say, hey, my bio kid’s feeling left out. Will you please acknowledge them too? Maybe parents did that. Maybe some of the newness wore off. Having a new friend, new kiddo around, there’s some new and excitedness. And maybe some of that has kind of faded away. Or maybe her perspective has changed a bit. Or maybe it’s all three things.
Brian (31:45.166)
Is that maybe some of the newness we’re all, know, having a new friend, kid around, new and excitedness and maybe some of that has kind of faded away? Or maybe first perspective has changed a bit, or maybe it’s all three things. So that’s kind of the summary of my book. I wrote it because there are some things out there that have been written for bio-kids and foster families. Not any white from the perspective. I obviously used peace.
Daniela Coats (31:58.439)
So that’s this kind of the summary of my book. wrote it because, you know, there’s there are some books out there that have been written for bio kids and foster families, not any quite from this perspective. I obviously used pieces of my story. This isn’t actually my story. This isn’t me, you know, but I use pieces of my story and those feelings. There are a lot of feelings mentioned in the book, like a lot of feelings. And I did that on purpose, too, to highlight some of the welcome feelings and the unwelcome feelings and.
Brian (32:10.967)
I use pieces of my story that are really good.
Daniela Coats (32:27.569)
Sometimes it doesn’t feel OK. And I think even as foster adoptive parents, sometimes it doesn’t feel OK to acknowledge like, I’m feeling resentful today or I’m feeling this today. And so to be able to name some of those feelings and by naming them, say it’s OK to feel them. So I wanted to make sure that that was displayed in the book as well. So the funny thing is, as I wrote the book and I started sending it to like, you know, friends before I really put it with illustrations and everything.
Brian (32:29.134)
Thank
to acknowledge like, I’m skeptical today, or I’m feeling blessed today. And so to be able to name some of those feelings and by naming them say it’s okay to feel them. They wanted to make sure that that was displayed in the book as well. So the funny thing is…
So like, know, friends before I really put it with illustrations and everything. I was sending it to other professionals, not even professionals in Boston or not.
Daniela Coats (32:55.057)
I was sending it to other professionals, not even professionals in foster care adoption, not those who even know what it’s like as a bio kid. But my response as I was getting back was, my goodness, that was so moving. I cried. And I’m like, what do you have to cry about? You don’t even know what it’s like as this child. But the way I wrote the book speaks to things we all have at some point or another of feeling invisible, of when the new person comes to the office and they’re like,
Courtney (33:09.501)
You
Brian (33:19.502)
Hmm.
Daniela Coats (33:24.379)
the life of the party going, man, okay, well, you know, I’m not very funny anymore or whatever. So we all have these seasons in our life where we can look back and think, I remember what I felt that way too. And so I think that’s why the book doesn’t just resonate with people who are in the foster care and adoption space. It resonates with people across the board because we all know what that’s like to feel like we’re forgotten or like people don’t quite see us.
Courtney (33:27.879)
you
Brian (33:29.336)
So.
Brian (33:47.104)
Wow. So any, and you mentioned though, it still is a, even though adults can resonate with it, it is a book targeting kids, right?
Courtney (33:47.997)
Yeah.
Daniela Coats (33:55.795)
100%. Yeah, it’s children’s book illustrations, very colorful. It’s about a 10, 15 minute read depending on who’s reading it. Yeah.
Brian (34:03.03)
Okay.
Courtney (34:04.391)
I bought the book and I loved it. I was telling Danielle before I started recording that I read a lot of books. I’m a past teacher, principal, and homeschooling mom. I love children’s books. I like to get all the new foster care adoption books for kids. And some of them go, quite frankly, straight in the garbage. Like, this is not going to be in my library because of XYZ. If you are a foster and adoptive parent that has kids of your own, bioadopted, whomever, you need this book in your library, really, because it does, like she shared.
goes through emotions and thoughts that they are having. And it has just great conversation ways too to bring this up and talk about it and see there might be some things your kids are feeling that you don’t even know or recognize or see at this point. It just does a great job. Again, a great conversational tool for you and your kids, a great thing for them to feel supported even just by you reading it to them. So I highly suggest it. Also, yeah, if you’re a…
Daniela Coats (34:57.383)
Thank you.
Courtney (35:00.519)
Potential foster family, current foster family, we will have resources linked in the show notes. I wrote a little ebook about supporting your kids before, during, and after a placement, so that’ll be linked as well as this book that Danielle wrote and some of the offerings that she has of trainings through with siblings. So make sure you check out the show notes. We want to be able to, you you listen to this and be like, okay, I need a little bit more. We’ve got more for you. So encourage you to take a look at the show notes and see those things of how you can really be.
encouraged and trained well on this topic.
Brian (35:30.99)
Daniela, any final thought?
Daniela Coats (35:34.897)
I don’t think so, no. I just, yeah, I appreciate when, you know, spaces give birth kids a voice. And I will say sometimes like, if you look for birth kids who are resentful and angry, you’re gonna find them. And if you look for birth kids who only have positive things to say, you’re gonna find them. I was talking to a friend recently joking like, where are those positive kids? But honestly, those are the ones sometimes we see like,
Courtney (35:36.733)
You
Brian (35:38.338)
We got them all.
Daniela Coats (36:02.237)
saying like, yeah, you should foster, do it, it’s so great, it’s not, you know, and it is great. And your kids may be quote unquote fine, but know that there’s this hard balance. And so that’s what I try really hard to do is to be the balance between I am not resentful and things were hard and I am thankful for my life and things were hard, right? And so that’s one, I’m just so thankful for you all giving the space to help families to.
understand what it’s like to be a birth kid and give birth kids voice because it helps them to feel seen and then therefore helps them to be supported and creates healthier foster families. And that means healthier families for kids who are in care. And so it really, it does impact the entire system if we’re making sure that the entire foster family is healthy and well.
Brian (36:49.846)
Thank you so much for, I’ve loved this interview and it’s so important and there are a lot of people who do feel unseen. So even if you’re not a foster parent, you might want to get this book. thank you so much. It has been great having you, learning from you.
Courtney (37:00.091)
Yeah.
Daniela Coats (37:08.733)
Thank you, I appreciate it. Thanks.
Courtney (37:08.797)
Yeah, we appreciate you.
Brian (37:11.704)
Bye.
Courtney (37:15.375)
trying to cook stop and it’s not letting me.
Brian (37:17.472)
Courtney (37:20.133)
I don’t know why.
Daniela Coats (37:21.563)
Well, let’s keep recording for until eternity.
Brian (37:23.094)
Mm-mm.
Courtney (37:29.017)
It’s literally like locked in place and I cannot click anything. What on earth?
Courtney (37:38.845)
I know if I dare.
Brian (37:42.126)
Yeah, it’s gotta be… If it’s 99 % uploaded and we stay on long enough… Will it… I know, it’s like, uh-oh.
Courtney (37:47.739)
It’ll be uploaded.
Daniela Coats (37:50.437)
Well, but will it if it’s still recording?
Courtney (37:54.685)
It has happened to me before where we got bumped off because internet things and it was all recorded. So I do know that. Yeah, it’s like completely locked. I’m clicking everything. It won’t let me click a single thing.
Daniela Coats (37:56.883)
okay.
hot skin. Yeah.
Daniela Coats (38:04.925)
How weird.
Courtney (38:09.339)
Okay, well let’s stay on for two minutes. I have a question for you.
Brian (38:10.81)
Yeah, let’s stay on long enough so we can make sure it got the last part. OK.
Daniela Coats (38:12.467)
fine. Yeah.
Courtney (38:16.381)
I’m not saying this is going to happen, Danielle, but we do what we call FosterCon, which is a webinar series. And one of my topics that while we have a planning meeting in January, I think it is for next year. And I’d love to do some more like very specific trainings, like one around food and one around schooling. And I’d love to do one around biological kids or your kids already in your care. So if we did that, would you?
Daniela Coats (38:21.885)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Daniela Coats (38:29.265)
Mm-hmm.
Daniela Coats (38:37.605)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Courtney (38:40.571)
like to be or would you be willing to be a guest on that to be kind of our keynote of speaking on this topic and then we’d have other guests on it too. It’d be a free webinar and then you could also, we could link your webinars and encourage people, hey, you want more training, get more hours, go here.
Daniela Coats (38:55.409)
Yeah, I mean, I’d certainly be willing to like, listen to hear more about like what it is the expectations would be, you know, as far as, you know, you’re saying it’s a free webinar. So it sounds familiar. There’s no compensation for that. So then my question would be like, how long is it? Is it something that I already have planned? Because the model that I use is that parents don’t actually get the trainings directly from me. It’s actually their organizations that have that they host the trainings. And so I would hate for it to be to that like,
Courtney (39:19.485)
Gotcha.
Daniela Coats (39:23.911)
families listen, want more and they’re like, we can’t get this, you know? And so, but I’d be willing to hear kind of, like I said, what the expectations would be as far as length of time and days and all those sorts of things. I’m certainly not shooting it down. I just would like to talk more about it for now, for sure.
Courtney (39:27.613)
can’t do that.
Courtney (39:39.537)
Okay.
and make it work. Yeah, good to you. After we do that initial planning, if we decide to do this as one of the topics, I’ll definitely reach out and kind of give you a lowdown. Yeah.
Daniela Coats (39:53.683)
works.
Brian (39:54.894)
Great. Well, I really did. I mean, I was sincere when I said I love this interview. Love your point of view.
Daniela Coats (40:05.245)
Thank you. I appreciate that. And the invitation to chat. Appreciate that too.
Courtney (40:05.405)
to.
Courtney (40:11.229)
Yes.
Okay, well, I think we’re probably safe. I still can’t click anything. Okay, bye.
Brian (40:14.454)
Okay, wanna bail out and see what happens. Okay, hopefully I got it. All right. Daniela, thank you.
Daniela Coats (40:16.691)
You’re probably all right.
All right, thank y’all. Absolutely. Have a great day.
Brian (40:25.282)
Thanks. Bye.
Courtney (40:25.359)
You too.