He also discusses the profound connection between food and relationships, emphasizing the importance of creating meaningful experiences in the kitchen with family. He shares practical tips for engaging children in cooking, the significance of understanding the needs of foster children, and his unique work in a women’s correctional facility, where he helps incarcerated women gain skills in food service. The discussion highlights the emotional and psychological aspects of food, connection, and community.
TRANSCRIPT:
Brian (00:01.855)
Hello audience, welcome to the Foster Friendly podcast. I’m your friendly host, Brian Mavis with my great co-host Courtney Williams and Courtney. We’ve got a great guest today and I would love for you to share just a bit about him before he gets to share about himself personally.
Courtney (00:22.912)
Okay, awesome. Well, today we have with us Chef Kibbe, who is a foster adoptive and bio father. He’s also in the food service and he’s a full-time director at the largest women’s correctional facility in Ohio. And on the side, he does speaking engagements around connecting through cooking and works on his podcast, The Hunger for Connection. And that title alone, I just love it.
Brian (00:44.597)
I do too, I heard that and I was like, oh, that’s good, that’s really good. Well, Chef Kibbe, thanks for joining us. We’re really looking forward to hearing your story today and the insights that you have. tell us a little bit more, just going off of what that brief introduction from Courtney, a little bit more about your work and whether it’s cooking at a women’s…
Courtney (00:48.718)
Yeah.
Brian (01:13.205)
correctional facility and your own podcast, share a little bit about that.
Chef Kibby (01:17.632)
Absolutely. First of all, Brian Courtney, thank you so much for inviting me to be on your program. I am such a huge fan. I am a professional chef, former culinary instructor, someone who’s been in and around the food service industry for about 30 years now. And that part of my life, obviously a very important part of my life and very formative to the way I see the world from this idea of hospitality, of using my gift to prepare and serve food.
Brian (01:34.069)
Hmm.
Chef Kibby (01:46.479)
to meet the needs of others. While at the same time in my family life, it was about, I wanna say about 13 years ago, my wife and I became foster parents for the first time and then went on to adopt out of foster care, even had a kinship placement at one point. And so we’ve kind of seen all the different parts as far as trauma informed care. And those two things, those two aspects of my life, the caring for children from hard places and feeding the needs of others.
Brian (02:06.153)
Mm-hmm.
Chef Kibby (02:14.456)
quite literally feeding their needs came together at one point in my life when I realized that these two separate parts of me are more connected than I ever could have possibly imagined. And when those two things came together, it really opened some new doors for me to be able to not only serve my family better and serve these children better, but to also help other foster adoptive kinship caregivers do the same.
Brian (02:26.421)
Hmm.
Brian (02:40.403)
Man, that’s fascinating.
Courtney (02:43.412)
It is fascinating. I know when I chatted with you over the phone, you shared a little bit about how this mostly changed for you around the time of the pandemic. Can you tell us like, what was life like for you before that? And what was kind of that shifting pivotal moment for you of like, that’s aha, something’s got to change.
Chef Kibby (02:58.959)
You remember the good old days, know, BC before COVID wasn’t life so grand. had a thriving catering business. I had a small event center. We were doing hands-on kitchen sessions for private organizations and for families and things were going really well. Well, at the same time, things were really hard at home. I was not doing well with the whole relational thing with my…
Courtney (03:02.872)
Yeah.
Chef Kibby (03:27.498)
once foster then adopted child, we weren’t getting along so well. I could not understand why the attitudes and behaviors that came with a child who was disconnected from their family of origin kept going, even though we had been giving her years of consistent care and clear instruction and love and compassionate support. And even after adoption, things were still hard. I thought that that was going to be a fix, you know, how little I knew back then. And so…
Brian (03:53.759)
Mm-hmm.
Chef Kibby (03:57.381)
My thriving business, or at least it was doing well, I don’t want to overstate it. My career as a professional chef was allowing me to escape from the problems I was having at home and to find some sort of an external point of validation that I was still able to use my gifts in a way that was helping people, even if I wasn’t being so helpful at home. I would just pray to God that he would enable my wife.
Brian (04:09.023)
Mm-hmm.
Chef Kibby (04:26.616)
to be a better support to this child because I just didn’t feel like I was equipped for it. And then God did something really generous to me. Through the pandemic, he ended my business, basically. When COVID happened and the lockdowns started, all businesses that were built around this idea of large groups of people gathering in public and eating went by the wayside immediately. And that was my entire business at that point.
Brian (04:31.189)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (04:48.735)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Chef Kibby (04:56.261)
And that was hard. It was hard not only because I lost a primary source of income, I lost a primary source of external validation, and I lost my escape route. And I had to come back home and face all the issues that I was trying to escape from. And it was in that time where I had to, I had to make a choice. I had to make a choice. Am I going, are we going to continue to do this or give up? And with
Courtney (05:10.914)
Reality.
Chef Kibby (05:24.856)
with a lot of prayer and support from my family, from our church partners, from our pastors, from trauma-informed caregivers around us, we were able to make some changes in our home and in our family and in our dynamic. And it was in that time that I began to see how this other part of me, this food part of me that I thought was something different was something very special and meaningful and could be something of value.
to give not just to other people, but also to my family. And not just in the sense of cooking for them, but seeing how food and cooking could be an avenue for creating relational connection and attachment. I don’t know how I didn’t see it before, but God put me into a situation where I had to see it then.
Brian (06:15.477)
Well, I love that and I would love to unpack that some more. I’m a fan of food and hospitality. I mean, there’s one of my more favorite business books is called Setting the Table and it’s the subtitles like Transforming Power of Hospitality or something like that. And then also as a foster dad,
Chef Kibby (06:23.466)
Yeah.
Brian (06:44.789)
personally aware of lot of kids having food issues and I would just love to hear more about how you took food and cooking and said, okay, I can turn this into connection and attachment. So unpack that some more. Let’s go deep.
Chef Kibby (07:04.964)
Yeah, and I will correct you in saying that I didn’t make food into something that connecting. was a discovery that I was able to make because God took those unique experiences in my life, my long history in food service and hospitality and combined that with this experience as a foster adoptive parent trying to create connection for a disconnected child and see how these two things come together to begin to understand that food
is one of the primary methods by which we form attachment, by the way we create connection. I if you have a biological child, that child is either nursing or receiving a bottle from you or being fed by you from the moment they are born moving forward. And it is through these transitory stages of being fed and having to rely upon a caregiver that they begin to understand what we
Brian (07:39.637)
Hmm.
Chef Kibby (08:00.043)
as grown connected adults know as these basic psychological needs to be soothed, to be seen, to be safe and to be secure. And as I begun to dig into the neuroscience, not only of trauma informed attachment theory, but also of how the body perceives and receives food, I began to realize that these two things are so closely woven together that…
Brian (08:24.842)
Hmm.
Chef Kibby (08:25.228)
We have in front of us each and every day as we’re feeding ourselves and our children an opportunity to use this to our advantage and to see this as a way for us to proactively create a felt sense of connection in these disconnected children while at the same time meeting their basic biological needs.
Courtney (08:46.712)
Yeah, I think about like my greatest memories growing up or the things that I just value so much that it is around the dinner table. It’s around the kitchen, you know, the stove cooking and memories of my grandma who’s now passed on. It’s around food. And those are the things that make me think of her and go back to, know, the memories that come up when you smell things, when you when you taste things. Yeah. And then taking these kids that come into care that didn’t maybe have that or are missing that or maybe it’s negatively. And honestly,
until I had my first conversation with you, Chef Kibi, I hadn’t really connected it like you’re saying either, as far as my emotions, as far as kids coming to my care. And then even, I always use examples. I teach foster care classes and people will ask me for an example, you know, about regulating a kiddo and stuff like that. And probably because I’m a mom and I cook a lot, I’ve got a large family, but I’m almost always using examples of in the kitchen. And I didn’t even realize it, you know, in the past of why do I use those examples? They’re what connect me to my kids oftentimes.
Chef Kibby (09:44.901)
And you’ve actually hit on two different things. Sorry to interrupt there, but you’ve hit on a couple of different things. First of all, that we all naturally understand that food brings people together because it’s something that is common to all of us. And when we’re bringing a child into our home from outside of their family of origin, from outside of our family of origin, in many cases, there aren’t a lot of things that we have in common. And that can be a roadblock to building attachment and building connection.
Courtney (09:45.378)
So even.
Brian (09:47.029)
Hmm.
Chef Kibby (10:14.648)
you know, I came from a pretty stable upbringing myself. And so there’s not a lot about my children’s story that I can empathize with, but hunger is something I can empathize with. And so for those of you who are listening, who are having a hard time understanding where your child is coming from, because you didn’t come from where they came from, this is one of those ways where we can begin to empathize and to connect.
on a sensory level and even like you said, a memory level because food, because it is such a deeply embodied experience, we form connections to things because they are sensed, because our body senses them with various parts of our sensory systems and then connects them to memory. And as luck would have it, or as I would say God would have it, the parts of our brain that are used for interpreting and receiving and deciphering
Brian (11:09.269)
you
Chef Kibby (11:10.712)
the different flavor combinations and the sensory perceptions that we have with food are directly tied to the areas of our middle brain, like the hippocampus and the amygdala, that are responsible for emotional memories. And when we begin to understand that and realize that, again, it’s like unlocking this secret power that we have as parents and caregivers that’s sometimes right underneath our noses, quite literally.
Brian (11:26.601)
Hmm.
Brian (11:40.243)
Okay, I’m imagining the audience right now and a bunch of moms, probably some dads too, who are the cooks in their family and they’re like, okay, let’s get real practical here. I’ve got a kid at home right now who’s had a bad week, month, year. I can’t connect to them. Give me as practical, empathetic,
step-by-step advice you would give to them on saying, you know, and I assume part of it is don’t expect miracles on your first attempt, but walk it through that, how you would do it.
Chef Kibby (12:22.276)
Well, the practical steps are pretty easy. First of all, feed them. I mean, really, I know that sounds easy, but let’s be honest, there are a lot of times when a child wants to be fed and we find excuses to say not to. And the first thing we need to do is understand that if they are asking for food or acting hungry, it is because their body is telling them that they are hungry. Even if we may realize in our more connected brains that they don’t think that they’re hungry, they might be, or they probably are.
Because soothing is that first, the most basic of the psychological needs. It’s the connection with our own body. And children who’ve experienced trauma, neglect, abuse, separation from family of origin have a hard time understanding how to be soothed. So first of all, feed them. It doesn’t have to be a lot. It doesn’t have to be fancy. It doesn’t have to be healthy. But find something that they would enjoy eating and feed them. The second level is to eat with them. Because when you eat with them, they are
psychologically, neurobiologically connecting the fact that you have the same needs that they do. There’s that empathy part there. So they are seeing that you are doing the same thing that they’re doing and you’re receiving soothing. So you’re like modeling using this deeply embodied experience how to experience being soothed. And in that process, they know how to be seen by you and are seeing you. From there, it’s preparing food for them.
Brian (13:26.847)
Mm-hmm.
Chef Kibby (13:48.141)
allowing them to see you spending your time and your effort to make something for them. They may not show the gratitude, but again, deep down inside, they see that this soothing that they’re receiving from you is a way for them to be seen and understand that this is a safe place for them to be. And then fourthly and finally, preparing food with them is kind of that final, that pinnacle step where they’re actually taking part in this process of
putting their hands into something that they and also you are going to put into your bodies. And you want to talk about a connection maker? I mean, I’ve had opportunities where my child, she may have only broken up the broccoli florets into little pieces, but she’ll take credit for the entire meal. And we want that. It’s silly, it’s funny. And as a chef, I mean, I’ve had to relieve myself of some of my personal pride in my food in order to take
Brian (14:34.229)
Uh-huh.
Courtney (14:34.542)
Look what I made!
Chef Kibby (14:46.764)
Pride in my child.
Brian (14:48.693)
Mmm. I love that.
Chef Kibby (14:50.167)
and allowing her the opportunity to experience what I’ve had the joy and blessing to experience for my entire cooking career of seeing someone put into their mouth to have that trust, to have that trust to take something that you have made and put it into their body. There’s nothing more intimate that we can do for someone else.
Brian (15:12.201)
I love that. So the four steps, feed them, eat with them, prepare food for them, and prepare food with them. I love that. Very practical. There you go. I asked and they received. Awesome. That’s right. Thanks for setting the table for us.
Courtney (15:24.6)
Very back to.
Chef Kibby (15:26.71)
I delivered, that’s hospitality right there.
Courtney (15:29.624)
Hahaha!
And also when they’re dysregulated, like I said, I use this example a lot when I’m talking to parents about how you can help regulate a kiddo, co-regulate when they’re dysregulated, their brain, their lid is flipped. Do you have some examples or practical tips? Like kids outside, they get in an argument with a sibling, they come in crying. Like how can we use the kitchen and food to kind of get around that and help regulate them?
Chef Kibby (15:40.836)
Ahem.
Chef Kibby (15:53.849)
That is harder because I think, well, a lot of times a child can be dysregulated because they are actually hungry for food. I mean, let’s face it, who of us on this Zoom call is a more pleasant person to be around when they’re hungry? I don’t see anybody raising any hands right now. We all are more likely to flip our lid when we are hungry because…
Brian (16:10.783)
Mm-hmm.
Chef Kibby (16:19.896)
We have this discomfort that’s hanging out inside of our body and we have less blood sugar to deal with the stress that we’re experiencing in that moment. So that could be part of it. But I think for me, what has really been transformational, not just for my child, but for myself, is understanding that when a child is dysregulated, it is a type of hunger, that it is actually a hunger for connection and that expanding your idea of what hunger is, that hunger
Brian (16:45.468)
Mm-hmm.
Chef Kibby (16:49.611)
We already talked about the four S’s of being soothed, seen safe and secure. The four D’s of hunger. Hunger starts out with a discomfort, this feeling we have in our body that arrives because of a deficiency of something. And that deficiency is then being communicated from the subconscious body up to the brain in order for the brain to decipher this messaging in order to then decide what to do. Now we understand that basically
through food. Like if I’m hungry, if I’m looking for a snack, I’m looking at this apple on my table and I say, I want to eat that, there’s a discomfort that I feel in my body because there’s a deficiency that I believe that my body believes it has. And that message is being deciphered in my brain and that I decide to pick up that apple and eat it. When we begin to understand that when our child flips their lid,
when they are dysregulated, when they are upset, when they’re nervous, when they’re scared, when they’re nerdy, when they’re anxious, when they’re disruptive. That it is because of an actual hunger for connection that they are experiencing, that they are in their bodies right in that moment experiencing a deficiency, a discomfort that is a result of a deficiency of some sort of relational peace, whether it be peace with their own body, peace with another person, peace with their environment around them, or
just not feeling hopeful, not having a sense of hope for their future. One of those relationships is suffering in that moment. And that deficiency is being deciphered in their brain, sometimes in a way that isn’t true, that isn’t healthy, that isn’t helping them in any way or shape or form. And then they’re making the decision based on that information. And it wasn’t until I understood that hunger that I was able to actually stop myself from judging my child.
from correcting my child, from shaming my child, from blaming a child for their attitudes and behaviors. And rather than trying to fix the behavior, I began to realize that there’s a hunger that needs to be fed by me because they can’t feed it for themselves. They are relying on me to feed this hunger for connection in them, which again, in some cases could be food, but sometimes it’s just sitting with them, acknowledging them, being in their presence.
Chef Kibby (19:12.516)
There’s a lot of different things that it could be. There’s no blanket answer. But until we understand this hunger for connection in our children, we’re going to have a really hard time seeing past the decisions they’re making and not be able to see the deficiencies and the discomforts are leading to them.
Brian (19:31.411)
So the 4Ds again are discomfort, deficiency. Let’s see.
Chef Kibby (19:38.052)
deciphering or decoding.
Brian (19:39.541)
Deciphering, yeah, and then a decision. so when. Bye.
Chef Kibby (19:41.797)
And then a decision. And that decision is meant to try to bring you back to comfort, back to peace. Peace in one of those four realms of relationship, which again, brings us back to those four S’s of being soothed, either soothed in relationship to our own body, being seen by someone else, being safe in our environment, and being secure in our expression of our hope for the future.
Brian (19:53.909)
This is…
Brian (20:04.309)
Okay, so let’s take everything you’ve said so far and when you went through the feed them, eat with them, prepare food for them, prepare food with them, what now I’m hearing is, look, they might be hungry physically. That’s true. And you’re going to help satisfy that physical hunger. But while you’re doing that, while you’re eating with them or preparing food for them or preparing food with them, you’ve got to change
Chef Kibby (20:19.94)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (20:34.277)
why you’re doing it. You’ve helped meet the physical need, but as the adult, you’ve got to have it clear in your mind, this kid is hungry for connection, and that’s the goal.
Courtney (20:49.432)
Yeah, I it.
Chef Kibby (20:49.987)
Yes, absolutely. I think you hit the nail on the head and it takes time. It takes practice because this is a really different way of looking at behaviors. But I would say the more I’ve delved into it, the deeper I’ve dug into the inter-relational neuro-gastronomy of our bodies, the more I’m just amazed at how much this deeply embodied experience of food has to teach us about the way that we eat.
relate in all of our different relationships because our relationship with food is a type of relationship. And it’s just so eye-opening. And it’s helped me to see relationships with everyone differently, with my wife, to have more patience with people who maybe disagree with me politically, which over the last six to 12 months has been incredibly helpful. And then also a relationship with God, to see that He designed us to be in relationship
Brian (21:23.327)
Yeah.
Brian (21:42.741)
Mm-hmm.
Chef Kibby (21:48.003)
and that this experience of food is a way for us to not only have a better relationship with ourselves, but also with him as well. So it’s an onion with so many layers that I just keep peeling back.
Brian (21:59.775)
Yeah, yeah, I love it. And again, for me, I just keep thinking like I could see a parent who takes pride in their cooking, takes pride in feeding their children. And if they’re having a child help out and if they do something wrong, put the wrong thing into the wrong amount, they spill something. If they just say this, the goal isn’t a incredibly perfect meal. The goal is connecting with this child. So if something goes wrong,
that’s okay because it’s an opportunity to connect. So again, I’m speaking to myself right now. I’m like, yeah, and so, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I’m intrigued too, because you’ve brought up a lot about the science of
Courtney (22:37.409)
Yeah.
Chef Kibby (22:40.066)
I’m trying not to interrupt because I love the way you’re, I love the direction you’re taking it.
Courtney (22:42.124)
Yeah.
Brian (22:57.525)
relational connection and the science of food and how that comes together. And I know I’m throwing you a question out there you haven’t asked you to prepare for, there’s science is one side, but what would Scripture say about this as far as food and connection?
Chef Kibby (23:23.78)
Well, I can think back to Matthew in Matthew’s gospel where Jesus is teaching the crowds and he said, are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied. If you actually take a step back and read that with kind of new eyes, you realize that that’s a ridiculous thing for him to say. That if you hunger for righteousness, you’re going to be satisfied. I can’t eat righteousness. I can’t put that into my stomach. That will not
Brian (23:34.868)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (23:50.409)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Chef Kibby (23:53.177)
that will not satiate my cravings. What Jesus is saying here is, as he often does, he takes things that we naturally understand. We understand what it means to be hungry. That when we hunger, it is an embodied experience, but it’s directed somewhere. It’s directed at something. And what Jesus is saying, if we direct our hunger toward righteousness, of not doing the right thing, but being right in relationship,
with God, you will experience a sense of satisfaction even though those things that you desire have not been fulfilled yet, which again, it’s just a wild thing. This sense of hope, which is the highest level of our psychological needs, can be satisfied when we aim our hunger at the thing that will bring us satisfaction ultimately. And I believe that from the very beginning of the Bible all to the very end, when you
When you look at it through this hunger for connection lens, you’ll see example after example after example in which God is using food and drink and the provision of it or the lack of it or the sharing of it as a way of bringing people deeper in connection both with Him and with other believers.
Brian (25:11.093)
Great.
Courtney (25:11.534)
Yeah, I’m thinking shifting gears a little bit because you’ve laid this out so beautifully of like the why. Like why is this such an important topic? Why is it something we need to be thinking about and realizing and recognizing in our own homes and with a connection with our kids? I’m going back to the practicality, so I’m a mom. got a lot of kids. Life’s very busy and so sometimes I find myself like just leave me alone in the kitchen. I gotta get this done quickly or you know we got people coming over this time. What are some very simple practical ways?
moms or dads can get their kids in the kitchen that can be helpful, you know, when you’re in a hurry or when you just want to get things done. Like, what are some things we can do?
Chef Kibby (25:49.089)
I empathize. Trust me. I empathize. I live in a four generation household. We got to get food down the table at a certain time because kids have places to go. We’ve got bedtimes. We’ve got, you you name it. So I understand. Also, I understand wanting to have food done a certain way because for crying out loud, I’m a professional chef. And that was really hard for me to swallow, to use another food pun, to this idea that
Courtney (25:50.516)
Hahaha
Brian (25:50.781)
No.
Courtney (26:07.95)
it
Brian (26:10.773)
Mm-hmm.
Chef Kibby (26:18.306)
by letting down my guard a little bit and by maybe not being so picky about how I wanted things done that I could actually replace that joy I got in providing food for my family by myself with an even greater joy of sharing that experience with one of my children. And when you move the goal posts, sorry, football is on the mind right now. When you move the goal posts just a little bit,
Brian (26:41.737)
Mm-hmm.
Chef Kibby (26:44.773)
you find that you can be even more fulfilled and even more satisfied, even if the food doesn’t turn out exactly the way you planned. Even if it doesn’t get finished at the exact time you wanted to have it finished. Even if some mistakes were made along the way. Even if by some curse it ends up being inedible. If the goal was connection, you’re going to get something from it and they are going to get
something from it. But at the end of the day, we also have to be practical as well. So I would encourage you listening to look for those opportunities for connection in the things that you’re already making. I think one of the most kind and generous things that I can say to you is that you don’t have to learn anything new. You don’t have to find any new recipes. You don’t have to find any new blogs or cookbooks or YouTube channels in order to connect with your child tonight when you’re preparing dinner. You can
Look at what you’re already doing and look for those opportunities where, you know what, if I’m being honest with myself, I don’t have to do this. I don’t have to scrub these potatoes. I don’t have to peel this carrot. I don’t have to set this table. I don’t have to cut these mushrooms. You know, there’s, I don’t have to stir this pot. Someone else can do it. And it may not seem like much to you, but it will mean the world to them. And it just takes those little, once you start doing it,
It’s like the kind of the, what is it? The yellow Jeep. Once you see one yellow Jeep and you start looking for yellow Jeeps, that’s all you see on the roads. Once you begin to see those opportunities for connection in the things you’re already making, it’ll begin to create these new neurological pathways in your own mind. And you’ll begin to see these opportunities to create connection with your child.
Courtney (28:19.629)
Yeah.
Brian (28:38.131)
Okay, chef, now I’m thinking about an audience member who’s hearing this and they’re like, I’m gonna do this tonight. And so they’re getting ready and they’re in the kitchen and their kid is on their phone and they say, hey, I would love for you to help me. Can you help peel these carrots? And the kid just stares at them, like with like not a chance. Okay, and they’re like.
Courtney (29:04.546)
you
Brian (29:06.951)
Okay, I hate this podcast now because it just burned me, set me up for failure. What advice would you have when you’re first starting and for, so now this is a new thing. They’re like, wait, you’re supposed to make food for me. What are you trying to do now? why, so how would you respond to that and guide that person who might experience that situation?
Chef Kibby (29:32.975)
Well, first of all, I would encourage them to continue listening to this podcast because if this episode didn’t serve you, I’m sure a following one will. I can say that on good authority. But beyond that, beyond that, let’s face it, new things are hard for a lot of people. This whole idea of cooking with my child when it was new to me was a little bit difficult too. It took my child coming to me and asking to do it with me for me to be able to see it.
Courtney (29:39.406)
You
Chef Kibby (29:59.873)
as something of a genuine opportunity that we can have for each other. So I was in the same boat as that child that you’re dealing with. Find ways to incentivize it for them. It could be being curious about the things that your child is interested in because…
Brian (30:14.773)
Mm-hmm.
Chef Kibby (30:17.998)
First of all, food involves a lot of different things, not just the nitty gritty details of chopping onions and mixing up soups, but it involves math and science and chemistry and physics and language arts and culture. And I mean, you can find a cookbook for about any pop culture. mean, there’s anime cookbooks, there’s Harry Potter cookbooks. You can learn how to make that weird blue milk that they had in Star Wars. Anything that your child is into, you can probably find a food related to it or…
Maybe there’s just a food item that they enjoy, that they’re interested in, that might give you an opportunity to say, hey, if you want us to make it this week, why don’t you help me make it? Incentivize it for them. And then, again, so that they can begin to have those opportunities to create those new neurological pathways, that they begin to understand, hey, this could be something fun. there’s something, you can catch a bug when it comes to cooking.
When you start to make food for other people and see the response that other people at the table have to something that you’ve made, it’s powerful. It’s very powerful. So be patient. And again, understand this hunger for connection that your child is having, that the discomfort that they’re feeling toward this new and weird and foreign idea, it’s going to take some time to develop their palate toward this idea of cooking with you. And it may just take some curiosity and some patience and some trying some different things.
Brian (31:15.529)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Brian (31:29.621)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (31:45.378)
And I would just add one thing is the environment. I have a speaker in my kitchen and we now play music when I’m doing the cooking, right? And I’ve given into some of my kids musical tastes, even if I don’t love them, as long as they’re appropriate. And I blast them during, you know, while we’re cooking. And so some of the kids might hear it and they might want to come join in on the kitchen because now we’re playing the song that they really like and next thing you know, they’re helping out.
Brian (32:09.203)
Yeah, I’ve listened to lot more rap than I ever thought I would in my life.
Chef Kibby (32:09.316)
That’s a great tip.
Courtney (32:11.766)
Yeah.
Chef Kibby (32:15.396)
Hey, have you heard Jackie Hill Perry’s new rap album? my goodness. She’s got bars.
Brian (32:15.477)
All right. And then, yeah, and I’m a chef’s table fan, that series from Netflix and they have a nice Vivaldi intro. And so I got into Vivaldi. So you never know. Okay. I’m also really intrigued. You shared it right at the beginning that you lost your catering business, but now you serve at a women’s correctional facility.
Courtney (32:18.092)
Hey.
Courtney (32:27.182)
Yeah.
Chef Kibby (32:30.393)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (32:44.341)
I would just love to hear about that a little bit too. Just what’s your day job like and are there any lessons there to take away?
Chef Kibby (32:53.849)
Well, again, I live in a four generation household of women. And so when I need to get away, I go to the largest women’s correctional facility in the state of Ohio.
Courtney (32:59.918)
Hahaha
Brian (33:00.071)
Wow. You’re like, I find more peace here than I do at home.
Chef Kibby (33:10.171)
It’s a different kind of piece. I wouldn’t say more, but it’s a different kind of piece. And when I tell people that I had the greatest job in the world, they look at me funny because I work at a prison. But it’s amazing, Brian. I can’t tell you. I work in an environment where all of my coworkers are convicted felons. have a staff of, looking at the lineup today, I think it was about 310 or so.
Brian (33:31.295)
Mm-hmm.
Chef Kibby (33:37.285)
incarcerated women that all work in the food service operation. So imagine a cafeteria where you have people who are serving the food, who are washing the tables, who are cleaning the dishes, who are preparing the food back in the kitchen, who are making sure that all the warehouses are clean and are bringing food in from the trucks and are cleaning the bathrooms and prepping food, know, all of these different things. And every single job is being done by an incarcerated woman.
And along with that, I am there working as a third party, as a contractor with Aramark Food Service, working there to facilitate all of this to take place, to make sure that they have access to the things they need, the rooms they need, the tools they need, the product that they need in order to fulfill this obligation that we have to these women who have no choice in where to eat. We have to serve them breakfast, lunch, and dinner 365 days a year.
Brian (34:20.053)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (34:32.074)
Hmm.
Chef Kibby (34:37.337)
And what this has allowed me to do is not only be able to bounce back after COVID and to have a job that provides for my family and really satisfies my need for validation as someone who’s been in the industry, but to see these women, many of whom have children that are in the system, and a staggering number of them came from the system themselves.
Brian (34:59.615)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (35:04.713)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Chef Kibby (35:10.542)
to see them having the opportunity to have that trust put into them. The trust that many people on the outside would not put into them right now if they knew what they had done.
Brian (35:22.869)
Hmm.
Chef Kibby (35:25.026)
and to have them experience that trust and that felt safety and that connection of being able to prepare and serve food to other people. And then to go even beyond that, we have a reentry program through Aramark called Into Work in which we actually, voluntarily, they take part in this program voluntarily, get trained in food service, professionalism.
Brian (35:46.261)
Mm-hmm.
Chef Kibby (35:47.973)
they get Serve Safe certified, which is the gold standard for certification in the food service industry. And many of them will go on to continue to work for Airmark, which is a Fortune 500 company. all across the country, even not just in correctional facilities, but in every aspect of the food service industry, to take part in that, to stand outside the doors of the entry building and see a woman who’s been incarcerated for 18 years, to be
to reenter public life as someone who has worked with us, who has developed skills and knowledge that is allowing her to move forward with her life and know that she has a job and that she has a life waiting for her. It’s just remarkable. And to do that, also being trauma-informed and to look across the workstation at this woman the way I have seen many
of the moms that I’ve worked with as a foster and adoptive dad, to have that level of understanding of these people as people, as worthy of value and being able to, again, to place that trust in them and to play a part in helping them to reform their connections with themselves and other people is a tremendous blessing.
Brian (36:53.054)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (37:12.553)
I love that so much. Thanks for sharing that.
Courtney (37:12.898)
beautiful.
Courtney (37:17.1)
Yeah. Well, I’ve just loved this conversation. I loved hearing from you and learning from you and thinking about this whole hunger connection. As we close this out, Chef Kibbe, can share with us how you would finish the sentence, what kids in foster care really need is?
Chef Kibby (37:36.174)
fed.
Brian (37:37.877)
Of course. And I meet it more than one way.
Chef Kibby (37:39.301)
And I know it’s it’s beating a dead horse, but they need to be fed. that’s, but that’s, it’s an important distinction. And I want you listening to get this. Children who have come from disconnected places, they do not need to be fixed. They don’t need to be saved. They need fed. Not just, and not just their stomachs. There is a hunger for connection that is behind
Brian (38:06.282)
Mm-hmm.
Chef Kibby (38:08.79)
all the attitudes, all the behaviors, all the challenges, all the struggles that you might be having in genuinely loving and having compassion for this child. And sometimes that love and compassion is not being received well by them. It is not a problem to be fixed. It is a hunger to be fed. And when you begin to embrace that mindset, it will open up such a treasure trove of empathy and compassion inside of you to be able to actually create an environment.
where you are open to connecting with them and they are open to connecting with you. Whether they are with you for a short period of time and you’re just developing a foundation of connection for them for the future or they’re part of your permanent family. That lesson is the most meaningful lesson that I’ve learned through this process and I hope you’ve got a taste of that today.
Brian (39:01.429)
Wow, wow. You know, we asked that question to all our guests and not that this is a contest, but you killed the rest of them. You get the gold medal. I love that. They need to be vet. Right?
Courtney (39:08.042)
Yeah.
Chef Kibby (39:11.971)
You
Courtney (39:12.148)
You make, I’m excited to go cook dinner tonight. So with my kids.
Chef Kibby (39:16.164)
I hope we get a chance to do this again sometime because I’m sure you have more questions. I’m sure your audience has more questions. I would love to do this again sometime. So thank you so much for this.
Brian (39:24.181)
Well, let’s help our audience know a little bit about, they can hear more from you. So you too have your own podcast called The Hunger for Connection. Tell us a little bit more about that and where people can find more of your work.
Chef Kibby (39:41.759)
The hunger for connection is just the outpouring of all the research that I’m doing into the science of interpersonal neuro gastronomy and my own personal experience as a biological foster and adoptive dad trying to answer those practical questions that we’ve been answering today. Finding a way of seeing those opportunities in this daily active feeding and eating together.
to create connection for disconnected children. So you can find it wherever podcasts are streamed. And I also do public speaking at conferences and workshops. if you have an organization or someone who’s looking for a speaker, I’d love to connect with you. And the best way to do that is on ChefKibbe.com.
Brian (40:23.189)
Great, all right. C-H-E-F, Chef, K-I-B-B-Y. All right, well Chef Kibbe, so grateful for your wisdom and your work and both your personal and professional application of that. And I know that there’s people right now who are listening to this podcast today who are gonna not change what they’re gonna do, but change how they’re gonna do it.
Chef Kibby (40:28.696)
That’s it.
Brian (40:52.093)
and in order to connect with their kids. Thank you so much. God bless. All right. He’s got a sign off. love it.
Chef Kibby (40:57.166)
Thank you, I’ll see you in the kitchen.
Courtney (40:57.326)
Thank you.
