Her story serves as a testament to the power of resilience and the role of caring adults in fostering growth and healing. In this conversation, Melissa shares her transformative journey from engaging in high-risk behavior to becoming a dedicated advocate for young mothers and foster care. She emphasizes the importance of support systems, the impact of trauma, and the need for commitment in foster care relationships. Melissa reflects on her own experiences in foster care, the role of community support, and the significance of self-reflection for effective parenting. Her story highlights the power of resilience, education, and the importance of creating safe spaces for children in care.
TRANSCRIPT:
Brian (00:02.666)
All right, Travis, nice to see you. We’re doing a podcast in the evening time and we have an amazing guest today. Just somebody who I think our listeners are going to love hearing her story. so Melissa, welcome to the Foster Friendly Podcast. Yeah.
Melissa Smallwood (00:25.08)
Thanks for having me, guys.
Travis (00:26.637)
Good to have you.
Brian (00:27.79)
We’re love to have hearing your story. got to read about it some and so excited to hear more details from you and some of the emotion behind it. But Melissa, I’m gonna read a little bit of your bio and then we’re gonna let you speak for yourself. So Melissa Smallwood is a counselor and family coach who has a passion for fostering hope for families. When in middle school, Melissa
confided in a counselor about things happening in her home and was placed in foster care as a result. Melissa aged out of the system after running away and ended up on her own and pregnant at 16. Melissa overcame many challenges and went on to become a foster parent with her husband and subsequently an adoptive mom. Melissa credits her success to her tenacity and resilience, which was based on the encouragement of her grandparents, other caring adults, and her husband.
Now Melissa uses her personal and professional experience to bring hope and encouragement to parents and those working with trauma affected kids and their families. Now my listeners, now you know why we’re excited about hearing from Melissa. So Melissa, so glad to have you here.
Travis (01:40.173)
Ha
Melissa Smallwood (01:46.424)
I’m glad to be here.
Travis (01:48.491)
Will, tell us anything else you’d like to say about yourself, your family, and then how do you like to have fun?
Melissa Smallwood (01:53.87)
Well, I think that my favorite role in life is being Mimi to my six little grandbabies. So that’s how I have fun. That’s how I have fun. Well, when you start parenting as young as…
Brian (02:00.664)
Wait, what? Wait…
Travis (02:04.896)
Okay.
Brian (02:05.806)
What? As I guess, okay, okay. I was doing the math there. It was like, you look like you’re 20, so I’m a little confused. Okay, all right. Yes, yeah, yeah.
Travis (02:09.261)
Rewind!
Melissa Smallwood (02:14.212)
No, I’m not. yeah, and I started young and we adopted, you know, kids out of disorder. So our kids range in age from 33 to 19. But when I want to have fun.
Travis (02:20.917)
Yeah.
Brian (02:25.25)
Wow, wow. And you’re a Mimi, right? That’s what my wife is a Mimi as well. I that term. Awesome. So how old are the grandkids?
Travis (02:25.261)
wow, okay.
Melissa Smallwood (02:30.116)
the Mimi.
Melissa Smallwood (02:36.502)
It’s absolutely the best thing in the world. Nobody prepares you for how awesome that is. They range in age from 14 to one is in the oven. I didn’t even count that one.
Travis (02:39.498)
I love it.
Brian (02:46.862)
so seven. All right. awesome. How fun.
Travis (02:47.581)
man! Wow!
Melissa Smallwood (02:50.306)
Yeah. Yeah. And then to have fun, I like to spend time with them. But we have moved to Florida, which is a little bit of a distance, but we still manage to go up there as often as we can. And then I love to go to Disney World.
Travis (02:53.111)
That is a range.
Travis (03:04.324)
yeah, it’s right there. Not far. Very, very cool.
Brian (03:05.89)
Yes, nice.
Melissa Smallwood (03:08.898)
I heard there’s an annual pass in my stocking this year, so I’m excited to run.
Travis (03:12.333)
Ooh.
Brian (03:13.358)
you’ve been a good girl.
Travis (03:20.205)
Well, thanks for sharing more about, you know, kind of just some of your life in Florida. But we’re going to transition now into your story. And so again, we’re really grateful you’re with us and honored, you know, to have you share. So tell us a little bit about your foster care journey, what it was like to be removed from your home and then kind of the entry point into foster care.
Brian (03:25.838)
Okay.
Melissa Smallwood (03:43.82)
Entry into foster care is very abrupt. Of course, a child doesn’t know that it’s coming. So, you know, a social worker and a police officer came to my school and I didn’t ever go home again. And so the abruptness of that is something that sticks with you as a core memory. Also, the home that I grew up in until that point, while very chaotic and things, was also very sheltered.
I was homeschooled for most of my life and isolated from a lot of outside influences and friendships like that. So it was also kind of culture shock to go to a public school environment and a group home and things like that. I hadn’t ever had a frame of reference for any of those things.
Travis (04:16.461)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (04:26.488)
Thank
Travis (04:36.845)
That is a star transition to, cause then to go into also a group home, which is its whole set of we’re house parents at a children’s home. so the culture of what some of those can be and my gosh, eyeopening. Yeah.
Melissa Smallwood (04:48.472)
Yeah, it was very scary to me. I remember being very scared and the first or second night that I was there, the person, my bunk mate set their bed on fire. And so was kind of baptism by fire literally into the foster care system. They quickly realized that I was not a good fit for a group home. I was so overwhelmed and they were able to find a foster home for me pretty quickly.
Brian (04:59.254)
Brian (05:15.694)
Wow, you’re really highlighting that what was happening in your own home alerted adults enough that they felt like you needed to be removed, but then they put you in a place that also was not healthy. gosh. Yeah.
Melissa Smallwood (05:29.476)
Right. And that happens a especially to kids that enter the foster care system at the age that I was, which was middle school. You know, older kids are harder to place.
Travis (05:31.341)
Hmm.
Brian (05:39.554)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah. Well, Melissa, I’m asking you a question and I feel a little bit weird asking about it because the question is about what went well and I don’t want to just feel like we have to jump to the good stuff. you have this hard transition into foster care and then you’re in a group home, then you move to a family.
was when that happened, how much longer were you in care and was there anything positive that was happening? Was anybody caring for you in a way that was healing for you?
Melissa Smallwood (06:21.604)
Mm-hmm.
I was in care for a total of about three and a half years, but most of that was with my, kinship placement with my grandparents. So my grandparents lived in another state at the time that I went into care. And although they were only a two hour drive from me because it was a different state, the ICPC process of
Brian (06:29.838)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (06:38.584)
Okay.
Melissa Smallwood (06:50.946)
different states having custody of kids and stuff in the system, it gets complicated, it still gets complicated today. And so that delayed my moving to my grandparents. And so that’s the time that I spent in foster homes was that time that we were waiting for that paperwork to go through, which was a little over a year. And there were positive experiences in one of my foster homes, the last foster home I was in before I went to live with my grandparents.
Brian (06:51.296)
you
Melissa Smallwood (07:20.868)
I tell the story of that foster mom, of course, as an angsty 12 and 13 year old. I didn’t realize it then, but she really poured herself into me and trying to get me out of my shell, trying to ignore my attitude, move past some of the walls that I had up to protect myself. And one of the ways that she did that was noticing my strengths and my passions and nurturing those things.
Brian (07:34.67)
Hmm.
Brian (07:41.752)
Sure.
Travis (07:50.561)
Hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (07:50.788)
I loved to sing. I played the flute. I played the piano. And she capitalized on those things and got me into this little country church choir. I was by far the youngest member of the choir.
Brian (08:08.714)
A bunch of 70 year olds and then a middle schooler. You’re hanging out with Hazel and Opal and all the old names. Awesome.
Travis (08:09.013)
Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha Ha ha. And Melissa.
Melissa Smallwood (08:11.524)
It was, basically, was a bunch of older ladies and Melissa. But those ladies loved me. They loved on me. I was. And wearing the choir robe and the whole thing. It’s hilarious to look back on now, but it was so smart on her part. And I think in a lot of ways strategic because it kept me occupied. There was practices I had to go to.
Travis (08:21.165)
Mm.
Brian (08:31.502)
Aww.
Brian (08:36.334)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (08:38.082)
And I had this layer of accountability with all these other ladies that I didn’t want to disappoint them. So it made my behavior at home better. She did things like that and she noticed things like that.
Travis (08:42.125)
Yeah.
Brian (08:50.208)
Okay. So I definitely want to highlight into our listeners, like don’t, like don’t miss this. So often we’re like, let’s focus on the gaps and where the kids are not thriving. And right. And she said, I’m going to focus on your strengths and, and, and, and shine a light on that. So, and you mentioned that obviously then some real practicalities as far as.
Melissa Smallwood (08:59.14)
And I had plenty of those to notice if that’s what she had chosen to focus on.
Travis (09:03.597)
Yeah. Mmm. Yeah.
Hmm
Brian (09:18.464)
accountability and having some positive time. Reflecting back on that, how did that impact you just emotionally, your soul, that someone was focusing on your positive traits?
Melissa Smallwood (09:34.99)
Well, for one thing, it made me feel a little normal. Like I had been in my previous church choir and like there were things that just made me feel, it just normalized what the experience I was going through. And looking back on it, years later, I contacted her. I found her on Facebook on a Mother’s Day and I just told her, I was like, you may not remember me, but.
Travis (09:42.061)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (09:43.182)
Hmm.
Travis (09:49.197)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (09:59.598)
Mmm.
Melissa Smallwood (10:04.324)
I remember you and I’m a foster mom now and I realize what you did and I’m carrying that through and I’m taking that approach with my girls and I just wanted you to know that you made a difference in my life. It might have taken me 25, 30 years to come back to you and let you know that but it meant a lot to me and she responded and she said, of course I remember you and she said, I’ve been praying for you for years.
Brian (10:23.544)
What a gift.
Travis (10:24.567)
Yeah.
Brian (10:27.854)
Aww.
Brian (10:31.982)
Aww.
Travis (10:32.161)
Hmm
Melissa Smallwood (10:33.188)
You know, that impact, love from a woman like that, you know, even if I wasn’t aware of it at the time, made such a difference. And I always tell the parents I work with, you are planting seeds or you may be watering seeds that someone before you planted. You might be providing the sunlight or the soil, but you are part of the process and you might never get to see the result. You know, your foster child might not reach out to you in 20 years.
Travis (10:37.441)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (10:37.933)
Hmm
Mm-hmm.
Travis (10:53.217)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (11:03.3)
but you had a part in the person that they become. And we have to remember that, that what we do has value, whether the outcome is what we want it to be, whether we get to see these kids bloom, every loving act that we commit with them is building up the person that they will become one day.
Brian (11:26.21)
Man, you’re making this podcast really easy. This is great. Keep going. Keep going. Beautiful.
Travis (11:27.341)
Well, of the things I love that you said, it is beautiful is the kind of even just the imagery you’re evoking here and talking about watering, soil, light, blooming. We were actually me and Brian were in a conversation recently, we were talking about the uprooted nature of foster care, especially entering in. And I think you already kicked it off by talking about the
Brian (11:39.95)
You
Brian (11:43.533)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (11:51.948)
Mm, mm-hmm.
Travis (11:56.235)
the like going in just the shakenness of like just the suddenness. And it seems like one of the things that you’re saying here as a tip, as a guide to foster parents is that there’s something we need to do to stabilize the landing, but also just stabilize some normalcy. And it seems like whether it’s joining an old ladies church choir or just whatever, those are ways to get rooted, right? I mean, to get sort of some stability and normalcy.
Belonging exactly. Yeah.
Melissa Smallwood (12:28.448)
to belonging. The other thing that they did well, if I have time to say that, is my brothers and I, my little brothers and I were separated when we went into foster care. That was the most dramatic part of entering the foster care system for me. I was a parentified child and I had played a caretaking role with my little brothers my whole life. And so I worried about them incessantly. And this particular foster mom, that same one, she took it
Brian (12:41.486)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Hmm
Brian (12:48.93)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (12:57.344)
upon herself to make sure that sibling visits happened. Even if mom didn’t show up for her visit, that we still got to visit as siblings. And prioritizing those relationships is really crucial. And especially for when you’re fostering an older child goes a long way in building trust.
Brian (13:00.888)
Hmm.
Brian (13:20.118)
That is, man, that’s so good. I’m glad you had that person in your life for a season. Wow.
Melissa Smallwood (13:25.529)
Yeah, me too.
Travis (13:27.777)
Yeah, because I that’s the other just kind of staggering thing here is like, think statistically, it can be north of 50%, 60 % of siblings are separated. so like, apart from all the layers of trauma and just what it must be the shocking nature of what it must be like to have that disconnection. I’ve talked to another former foster youth that almost talked about it feeling like it, how can this be legal? You know, and the end but but that is just the nature of not having enough families, you know, it’s just
Melissa Smallwood (13:50.681)
for
Brian (13:52.834)
Mmm… Mm-hmm.
Travis (13:56.151)
There’s just the capacity. if we could kind of walk your story forward then, at some point then you run away, right? guess that’s part of then the next… Okay. I was a runner, okay, yep. The designation. And just leave for the night and then not come back.
Melissa Smallwood (14:06.552)
I mean, I ran away more than once. I was a runner.
Brian (14:10.2)
You’re just in training for a marathon.
Melissa Smallwood (14:12.32)
as were and as they liked to coin us.
Yeah, because I’m certainly not a runner now.
Yeah.
I always, tell parents that are foster parents that are struggling with children who run away that often kids are not running away from something. They are running towards something. So for me, it was usually I’m running towards my mom. I’m running towards my brothers. I’m running away from people that are not telling me the truth. It was very self-protective, impulsive thing.
Brian (14:39.864)
Hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (14:54.826)
It wasn’t manipulative. It wasn’t defiance. It was purely flight. It was just, I have to get out of here. I have to go here. And I think that that’s, you know, important to understand about kids that have that tendency. There is something that’s making them feel unsafe. And the only way they know how to handle it is to get out of the situation.
Travis (15:02.093)
Hmm.
Travis (15:21.837)
So in, guess, so you were a runner, but at one of the last, I guess, the major running event, if we want to call that is so then you end up leaving and then you ended up pregnant at 16. What was now that part of your story, like in journey of finding support, trying to navigate being a young mother and all that.
Melissa Smallwood (15:42.626)
Yeah. So two weeks before my 16th birthday, I had had an argument with my grandparents about my mom. And I had recently found out that my mom was expecting a baby. And, you know, 15 year olds aren’t the most rational human beings in the first place. And I decided took it upon myself to decide like she doesn’t just get to have another kid when she’s not taking care of any of us. So
Brian (15:51.894)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (16:09.858)
Well, yeah.
Melissa Smallwood (16:11.114)
I’m going to show up on her doorstep and she’s going to take care of me. And that lasted about two weeks. And then I was too prideful and too scared of how angry my grandparents were to go back. And so I just made it work. I tried living with my dad. That also didn’t work out. And I ended up renting a room in an apartment.
Brian (16:26.04)
Hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (16:39.234)
and working a job in a drive-through, and several months later, I found myself pregnant.
Brian (16:45.836)
So at that age then were you still in the system or were you out of it? Okay, you ran away and no one looked.
Melissa Smallwood (16:51.608)
They didn’t look for me. I’ll put it that way. Right. And a lot of times we don’t look. I remember one placement that my husband and I got. They called us. I was walking into church on a Sunday and they said, hey, we have this teenager. just, she won’t stay. That’s what they said. She won’t stay, but we have to place her because we caught her from the last time she ran away.
Brian (17:00.748)
Mm, wow.
Melissa Smallwood (17:20.416)
when they dropped her off right in front of her, they said, she’s a runner. When she runs away, call the police and call the hotline. And that’s the attitude. Nobody looks for them, nobody, especially 30 years ago. And so I just slipped through the cracks.
Brian (17:25.326)
Cheers.
Brian (17:33.518)
Ugh.
Travis (17:37.847)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (17:42.072)
Yeah. So you’re 16, you’re pregnant. The trajectory at that point could have gotten really bad as far as being homeless, poverty, addicted, all the things. But
Melissa Smallwood (17:58.68)
Yeah. And in a lot of ways, and I don’t say this to like, you know, support teen pregnancy or anything, but in a lot of ways, getting pregnant saved me from a lot of those things because I was doing those things. I was drinking. The first time I had alcohol poisoning, I was 14 years old. I was doing drugs. I was waking up and not knowing how I got to where I was or who I was with.
Brian (18:12.064)
Interesting. Okay.
Brian (18:17.998)
Hmm.
Travis (18:25.036)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (18:25.974)
And so I was definitely engaging in really high risk behavior at that point. And for some reason, a switch flipped in me when I found out that I was pregnant and that I was going to be, I was going to have somebody dependent on me.
Brian (18:42.67)
I want to stay on this point a little bit because a lot of girls who were in the place that you were, they get pregnant intentionally to have someone to love. mean, girls in your situation are three times more likely to get pregnant than their peers. But they also are at the highest risk, the highest risk group of losing their own kids.
Melissa Smallwood (18:55.096)
Yes.
Travis (19:12.045)
Hmm. Hmm.
Brian (19:12.106)
the system, which I don’t think happened for you.
Melissa Smallwood (19:16.822)
It did not happen to me. It could have happened to me, not because I deserved it to, but I did have a babysitter who I think saw the opportunity to take a baby away from its mom because she did report me to CPS. Thankfully, I had a pediatrician that thought I was doing an excellent job and plenty of people that spoke to my parenting and they didn’t pursue a case.
Brian (19:23.502)
you
Melissa Smallwood (19:45.814)
Yes, for sure. And my work in child welfare now, it just breaks my heart how many of the moms that I’m working with to try to keep their children in their homes were in foster care themselves.
Brian (19:56.716)
Mm-hmm.
Travis (19:58.581)
Yeah. Yeah, that’s like the, one of the biggest predictors, right? The correlative, like if you were in foster care, yeah.
Brian (19:59.202)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (20:03.562)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So again, I want to pause there for a moment for our listeners to reflect on what you just said and to know that if you come across a teenage girl who is pregnant or has a baby,
Melissa Smallwood (20:06.113)
Hmm. Yeah.
Brian (20:26.286)
The right thing to do, the right instinct is to try to help that mom succeed.
Melissa Smallwood (20:34.588)
try to help her parent. Yes. Yes. It’s a soap box I get on frequently. And when I get bogged down in those foster parent groups on Facebook, I try to avoid them because I tend to come on a little strong sometimes. But specifically about that issue, if you’re taking in a teenager, a placement that is a teenager that is pregnant or parenting, you are taking them in to mentor them to be the best parent that they can be. You’re not taking them in.
Brian (20:36.022)
Yes.
Travis (20:44.471)
Hehehehe
Brian (20:46.413)
Hahaha
Travis (20:47.403)
Ahahaha!
Brian (20:59.565)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (21:04.408)
to take their child from them. And granted, there are times when they up and leave because they can’t handle the responsibility and that’s different, but our heart and our intention should always be to keep families intact. And one of the ways we do that is by helping these teenagers who never had any positive parenting role models. Like how are they gonna know how to do this if we don’t teach them?
Brian (21:28.556)
Right? Right.
Melissa Smallwood (21:31.03)
Instead of criticizing what they’re doing wrong, let’s think about why they’re doing it wrong and help them learn how to do it the best way.
Brian (21:38.638)
So I know you can speak as a professional in that experience, but I’m curious at 16, you’ve got a babysitter who’s not doing that for you. You’ve got a pediatrician who’s rooting for you, but I mean, they’re a pediatrician. You see them rarely. What made the difference for you?
Melissa Smallwood (22:04.054)
two things. I met my husband while I was pregnant and having another, if you could call us adults at that point in our lives, but having another grown up and someone who was very just solid, stable, like totally just dropped out of heaven and brought to me for a reason. And then I also contacted my grandparents at that point.
Brian (22:08.216)
Mm.
Brian (22:13.553)
Hahaha
Travis (22:14.433)
Huh?
Brian (22:32.526)
Hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (22:33.284)
getting pregnant and probably I didn’t contact them when I was pregnant, but after I had my son, you want to show your baby off. And I was like, they would really love him and they probably wouldn’t be angry at me anymore because they would be at him. And that was 110 % true. And they adored him and they still adore him. so I had their support.
Travis (22:42.999)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (22:43.246)
Hmm.
Brian (22:47.31)
Right?
Travis (22:48.085)
Yeah? Alright!
Yes.
Melissa Smallwood (23:01.029)
and the support of my husband and his family.
Brian (23:04.162)
Wow, like said, yeah, it sounded like a gift from God at that moment for you.
Travis (23:04.512)
Well, ahem.
Melissa Smallwood (23:09.752)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (23:13.412)
Yeah. And then we accidentally became pregnant with my son, Matthew. They were born 15 months apart. That was 100 % not intentional. And this is another thing not to, you know, hijack the conversation, but something that foster parents need to know is that, you know, I went into foster care, not knowing to expect a period, not knowing anything about anything.
Brian (23:40.824)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (23:41.26)
And so I didn’t know that you can’t mix birth control and antibiotics. Like I wasn’t parented and that, and we have to remember that we can’t take for granted that the children that come into our homes have had adequate parenting up until the point they come to us, especially when they come to us as older kids. We have to fill in some blanks and we have a responsibility to do that because we can prevent some of these things that kind of sneak up on them or that they wouldn’t expect or wouldn’t know anything about.
Brian (23:45.855)
Mm, mm. Mm-hmm.
Travis (23:47.917)
Mm-hmm.
Travis (24:03.959)
Hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (24:11.212)
and kind of normalize it too. But that pregnancy with Matt led me to have a relationship with Jesus and through a mom support group that a local church was putting on. And so, sometimes the things that happen in our life that seem like, no.
Brian (24:24.398)
Mmm.
Melissa Smallwood (24:38.316)
can totally be orchestrated for our healing and our good.
Travis (24:38.925)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Brian (24:42.04)
Yeah. You were illustrating something too that our listeners to hear is in your experiences that we could categorize under the word trauma. I think that word’s overused, but it’s true in your case. Trauma isn’t just what happens to you, but it’s what doesn’t happen for you. And there was a lot that wasn’t happening for you that
Melissa Smallwood (25:05.188)
great.
Brian (25:08.832)
You were like, I didn’t know any of these things. No one was parenting me.
Melissa Smallwood (25:10.99)
Right, exactly. And not only did that group help me grow spiritually, they also helped me get my GED because I had dropped out of school in the 10th grade. They helped me take my ACT’s and enroll in college. It’s those people that came along my path, those other caring adults that I talk about that came along my path and poured into me, didn’t see me as the sum total of my mistakes.
Travis (25:12.749)
Hmm.
Brian (25:23.045)
Mm-hmm.
Travis (25:39.053)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (25:39.394)
but saw the potential in me that have helped me reach the places that I have reached in my life since.
Brian (25:44.91)
Beautiful.
Travis (25:45.831)
Wow. That is beautiful and extremely powerful. It, man, we just camp out on so much of the stuff and just say it be its own podcast episodes, but you’ve already alluded to, and I’m really going to be fascinated by this. So we’re going to fast forward in your life and you know, and you guys become foster parents. So what was the kind of catalyzing moment or take us into that journey of becoming foster parents?
Melissa Smallwood (26:12.622)
So that was something that I knew I was gonna do from the time I went into foster care. I’m one of those people, I don’t know if you guys are familiar with the Enneagram, but I’m a one and we’re a reformer. And so we see the things that are wrong and we want to fix them. And so I wanted to the child welfare system. What a naive child I was. My husband,
Travis (26:23.117)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Brian (26:23.203)
Mm-hmm.
Travis (26:35.277)
We need a lot more wands out there then.
Brian (26:35.65)
Yeah.
Melissa Smallwood (26:40.972)
And I came to a compromise because he wasn’t the most thrilled about that concept. That we would wait until our biological children were grown before we fostered. And so we did. We took custody of his son from a previous relationship when he was six years old and I adopted him. So we raised our three boys and then we
went into fostering.
Travis (27:12.695)
So I’m, was there, how long did you foster then or what is that?
Melissa Smallwood (27:18.328)
We fostered for almost three years, because we ended up, our plan and our intent was not to adopt. I thought we’re going to take in teenagers. They’re not going to want to be adopted and we’ll do this forever. And then we are home filled up with kids that weren’t leaving.
Travis (27:21.953)
Okay.
Travis (27:39.349)
Yeah, so I’m curious too to think about this kind of It’s like kind of two sides It seems like we’re on the one side your experience brings you into this place where you can give back you talked about You know, it was always important to you to kind of go back to this space So there’s redemption there’s you know pouring into these lives and then I imagine there’s gotta also be triggering moments of your past or you see store like depending on the story depending on their experience you’re kind of are you
constantly battling that walking back into your own story in some dark shadows as well in these times of fostering.
Melissa Smallwood (28:14.53)
Yeah. Yeah. So I’m really glad that I didn’t foster until I was in my thirties. And because I don’t think I was in a healed enough place earlier than that to have taken on kids that would trigger my my wounds. And yes, it helped that that runner that we picked up that night. We were the first home in months that she hadn’t run from.
Brian (28:16.142)
Hmm.
Brian (28:44.45)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (28:44.572)
And so, yes, my experiences and my ability to connect with kids based on understanding what they were going through did absolutely make a difference in some kids’ But my ability and willingness to acknowledge, this is an unhealed place, and I need to go work on that because my unhealed place is butting up against their unhealed place, and this is not going to end well.
Brian (28:52.258)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (29:12.324)
So actually fostering was a huge catalyst for me to continue in my own trauma.
Brian (29:15.912)
Mm-hmm.
Travis (29:20.663)
That actually too, to add to that is a very important point to be said as well. The people that foster parents have never been in foster care. Like this also applies. Like you’re saying too, like if you’ve come upon your trigger points that haven’t had help or like if it’s exposed something that’s like, my gosh, this is really causing something. Like speak to that for a current foster parent that kind of sees that and goes, what do we do now?
Melissa Smallwood (29:28.492)
Agreed. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Melissa Smallwood (29:44.287)
really wish that therapy was a prerequisite to be a foster parent. And I don’t just say that as a therapist, but I say that for the sake of our kids, because so often the things that we are complaining about, their behavior or whatever, is really because sometimes we weren’t allowed to act like that as a child. And we haven’t ever dealt with the trauma that comes up from that or things like that. Like we all have these unhealed places and
Brian (29:53.229)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (30:12.92)
these kids tap dance on those places. And so if we’re not willing, if we’re not willing to acknowledge that those places exist and we’re holding them 100 % responsible for our reactions, then we’re not a healthy parent for them.
Travis (30:16.909)
Hey, perfect.
Brian (30:29.144)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Travis (30:31.893)
son.
Brian (30:32.366)
This idea that as a parent who cares, if you’re going into it for all the right reasons, you have a big heart, you want to help kids from hard places, you can go in kind of naive thinking. It’s the child’s trauma that needs to be
focused on and when it’s as you’re saying is maybe the most important thing you can do is reflect on your own reactions to explore what’s going on there because yeah, because a dysregulated adult can’t help a child regulate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I’m curious too, when we camp here just a little bit longer about your
Melissa Smallwood (31:13.774)
Right, your own ability to emotionally regulate all those things.
This is of no use to a trauma-affected child.
Travis (31:23.692)
Rice.
Brian (31:30.862)
your own experience of being a youth in care and then your own experience of being a foster parent and I’m reflecting back on that girl that came to your home as a runner and it was announced to you in front of her. What advice would you give to foster parents who are receiving a child? Like what’s the most important thing they could do in the first five minutes, the first five hours, that first night? What advice would you give them?
Melissa Smallwood (32:00.804)
I say that we want to put them at ease. One of the first things I said to her was, if you are going to leave, I’m not gonna stop you. So I was just automatically setting the tone that there’s no friction here between us. I won’t take it personally. I get it. And I said, but if you’d like to tell me where you’re going, where you’re running to, maybe there’s something I could help you with.
Brian (32:31.043)
Wow.
Melissa Smallwood (32:31.876)
And then we went on with our evening and later that night she came to me and told me and her story is hers to share, but it was an easy fix. And I called, said, I told her, said, well, it’s, Sunday night. So I can’t do anything about that today, but I will tell you that if you’re here in the morning, I will call and your caseworker and we will take care of that tomorrow.
Brian (32:45.358)
Hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (33:00.048)
and, that can be a done deal. And, and we did, and she stayed with us for several weeks before she moved on. And that’s all it took. It wasn’t some big conversation. wasn’t, threatening. wasn’t getting scared and locking all the windows. it was just connecting with her and offering her, the opportunity to, and she, and she told me, she’s like, nobody has asked me why.
Brian (33:29.518)
Wow. I can see why you’re a coach to foster parents, man alive. Because I think, I mean, what you shared was like in one sense of like, that’s common sense. But I don’t think it’s common practice. I think a lot of parents would have freaked out a little bit like, lock the doors, don’t you run away from me young lady. uh-huh, yeah, yeah.
Melissa Smallwood (33:30.212)
I was running.
Travis (33:31.297)
Hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (33:47.66)
take anything that belongs to us. And it’s, I get it, I get it. Like we all have those thoughts, but we have to be able to take a step back and zoom out and think why.
Travis (34:00.909)
Right, the why. What you’re doing is what’s the root here? I mean, we’re all seeing the behaviors and going, like, how do we manage this behavior? But within the behavior, right, right. Wow. right. Yeah.
Melissa Smallwood (34:07.298)
Behavior is communication. What is she communicating? Yeah, over and over and over.
Brian (34:11.086)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (34:15.8)
So you also, Melissa, mentioned 10, 15 minutes ago about you were a high school dropout. But now here you are with a master’s degree in counseling and coaching. again, the national averages are that a youth who goes into foster care ages out.
Melissa Smallwood (34:24.228)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (34:42.334)
has about a 1 % chance of going on and graduating from a college. So you are an outlier. what would you attribute it that to? Is it just, I mean, partly being a one, having ambition? Was it this group from the church? Like what occurred that got you on a trajectory towards educational advancement?
Melissa Smallwood (34:46.574)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (35:10.04)
Definitely the church ladies because I don’t know that I would have ever thought it was possible for me. Like I had kind of resigned myself. Wow, I screwed everything up. Like I’m not gonna ever be, my goal is to be a music therapist. I’m not ever gonna be a music therapist. I’m not even gonna be able to get a good job because I don’t have a high school diploma. I was only, you know, 16, 17 years old. It wasn’t in my frame of reference. You can overcome this.
Brian (35:17.186)
Hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (35:39.096)
So them telling me and showing me how was a huge catalyst. And then it’s really my tenacity because it took me 13 years, one class at a time to get my bachelor’s degree because I was a mom of three little boys and needed to work and contribute to the house and all those things. So it was just tenacity. then my master’s was, my husband and I had agreed because it took me so long to get my bachelor’s that
Brian (35:48.896)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (36:07.842)
when my son Matthew graduated from high school, it would be my turn to go back to school. And so he graduated in May and I applied to grad school in May, applied to foster in May. Like I was waiting for that timeline. And that’s just the personality I have.
Brian (36:27.138)
Wow, congratulations.
Travis (36:29.195)
Yeah, that’s amazing. And all those factors coming together. If you were to finish the sentence, what kids in foster care really need is, what would you say?
Brian (36:35.47)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Smallwood (36:43.682)
What they really need is commitment. They need commitment to stick it out when they’re being challenging. They need commitment to championing their biological family when it’s safe and appropriate. And I could do a whole podcast on defining safe and appropriate. They need commitment to seeing them through no matter what. And you know,
Definitely in our relationship with our kids, there have been a lot of no matter what moments that we’ve walked through, are walking through, will walk through in the future.
Kids deserve to know that there’s someone in their corner and that they belong to a family no matter what.
Brian (37:39.212)
What a great mantra. Dude, yeah. No matter what.
Melissa Smallwood (37:44.036)
That doesn’t mean, I think it scares people sometimes when I say that because it doesn’t mean that we let them be violent towards us or that we let them steal from us or, you there are boundaries, but you’re still my child at the end of the day. And if that means I come visit you in the county jail, then I come visit you in the county jail because I’m your mom, no matter
Brian (37:56.759)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (38:06.84)
Yeah, I’m glad you said that. are parents who I know who are fabulous, but they’ve had their child maybe go to a long-term camp kind of situation, things like that. Yeah, the reason they… Yeah. Yes. Right.
Melissa Smallwood (38:20.068)
Sometimes that’s necessary for the safety of other children. there’s no shame here. But you don’t have to relinquish your place in your family because they needed to be out of your home for a little while. You guys didn’t see an issue the same way, things like that.
Brian (38:32.993)
Right. Right.
Brian (38:38.848)
Right. Yeah, beautiful. Well, Melissa, again, I can see why you’re a wonderful at your job. And I want to make sure that foster parents out there know how to get a hold of you if they would love to hear more of your wisdom on and your coaching. So how could listeners find you?
Melissa Smallwood (39:02.944)
a website at mendingheartscoaching.com and you can find me on Instagram and Facebook as Melissa Smallwood, just myself.
Brian (39:13.784)
Great. All right. Well, Melissa, thank you so much for sharing your story, sharing your insights, heart and mind. You’re a gift to so many, I can tell.
Travis (39:15.028)
Awesome.
Melissa Smallwood (39:26.158)
Thanks for having me guys. And I love that you’re elevating the voices of people that have lived experience. I think that’s one of the best ways that foster parents can learn.
Brian (39:34.85)
Mm-hmm, for sure. Thank you.
Travis (39:36.525)
Awesome. Totally agree. Thank you so much.
