Episode 42 – A Lively Conversation on Congregate Care and Celebrating a Century of Caring for Kids with Scott Fuller

TRANSCRIPT:

Courtney (00:01.963)
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Foster Friendly Podcast. I’m Courtney Williams, joined with my co-host, Travis Vongesness. And today we are gonna be talking to someone whose organization has recently celebrated 100 years of caring for Georgia’s most vulnerable children in foster care. Yeah, wow, that’s a century. That’s a long time. A long time of working in this area. But our guest today is Scott Fuller, who is the vice president with advancement of Merf.

my goodness, now we’re going to have do this again. I know how to say it. And there’s a whole paragraph from me here.

Scott Fuller (00:31.696)
You

Travis (00:32.59)
Just restart it, restart it!

Scott Fuller (00:35.994)
He did. Yeah.

Travis (00:38.094)
Alright. Good practice.

Scott Fuller (00:40.56)
Yeah, one time you get one time Lulligan Murphy Harp say heart

Courtney (00:41.623)
Yeah.

Travis (00:45.699)
One time! Alright.

Courtney (00:48.887)
Harpsed.

Courtney (00:54.103)
It’s an advancement. It’s advancement before that is really hard. It’s a tongue.

Scott Fuller (00:58.896)
It is. I’m like, gosh, I’ve got to get out and I’ve done it a thousand times. Yeah. It’s hard.

Travis (00:59.615)
Advancement. That’s…

Travis (01:04.578)
That’s why I had you do the setup.

Courtney (01:05.206)
Yeah, I see that now.

Scott Fuller (01:07.95)
selected.

Courtney (01:11.647)
Okay, our guest today is Scott Fuller, who is the Vice President of Advancement at Murphy Harpst Children’s Center, a faith-based organization that is a nonprofit specializing in delivering innovative clinical, therapeutic, and residential services to kids in foster care across Georgia. His visionary leadership has been instrumental in securing funding and building partnerships that expand vital mental health and community-based programs across the state. So.

Scott, thank you for joining us today to share with us about your organization and the work that you’re doing.

Scott Fuller (01:45.248)
Yes, thank you Courtney Travis. Great to be here. Appreciate the opportunity.

Travis (01:49.918)
Awesome. Great to have you. So I have to imagine with Murphy Harp’s history, its long history, storied history, and a vibrant campus that we’re going hear more about, you’ve had to have plenty of either traditions, fun moments, gatherings, all of the above. if you could point, what would be a memory of maybe the funnest thing you’ve been part of at your organization?

Scott Fuller (02:14.452)
Yeah, thank you. So I will have to say that this last year, our hundredth was, because I’ve been there 10 years, so I can’t say a whole lot about his experiences, but as a historian. But this past year, we had our century celebration. And it was an intimate crowd of 250 people from around the state of Georgia, from the Gold Dome in Atlanta, to foster families.

staff, churches, donors, volunteers, and our children. And it was an exceptional night. We don’t often get the full family of Georgia that’s endeavoring to support these children and the children all in the same room. So it was filled with history, with shared testimony from former residents.

from years ago and the presence of our current residents on campus. It was a magnificent night really. We hosted it at the Piedmont Driving Club in downtown Atlanta, a pretty top-notch spot. But to see these youth and the people who are rallying around them, see them all in the same room.

Travis (03:31.697)
Ha

Scott Fuller (03:42.352)
And those kids encouraged in that environment. That was really, really special. And of course, for what I do, seeing that moment across the past hundred, knowing our founders and thinking about their sacrifices early without this type of resource. anyway, just, it was very special to me personally as a spokesman and advocate for the kids.

and working with a lot of our partners.

Travis (04:15.276)
I’ve a lot of emotions and yeah, just a lot to witness there.

Scott Fuller (04:18.308)
Yeah, yeah, I like yeah

Courtney (04:22.609)
Yeah, so Murphy Harpst has a storied legacy. mean, 100 years for these kids in foster care across Georgia. Tell us more about that, how you’ve evolved across the years about the array of innovative and therapeutic programming that you’re offering today.

Scott Fuller (04:42.128)
can y’all hear me?

Travis (04:44.364)
Yeah, he froze for a minute there, but he’s back.

Scott Fuller (04:46.064)
I don’t know why that would be happening. That’s disappointing. I do it here at the house so that generally doesn’t happen.

Travis (04:53.214)
is froze.

Travis (05:01.966)
That’s okay, we’ve had.

Scott Fuller (05:03.692)
And it’s say an 83 % uploading on your screen and I don’t know what that’s a problem.

Travis (05:09.506)
That just means that as we’re recording, it’s continuing to upload, which is different than Zoom. And then at the very end, it will get it fully uploaded. So you’ll see that from time to time. Yeah. We’ve had guests before where they froze for a little bit. And it’s OK. We’ll get back on. Actually, that’s a good stop off, because did you skip the next question unless something changed in the outline? OK. That’s good. It’s all good. I didn’t know if we.

Scott Fuller (05:14.958)
the info. Okay.

Scott Fuller (05:25.296)
All right.

Courtney (05:32.747)
we did. Yeah, I just, I, I, I screwed up.

Scott Fuller (05:34.682)
So.

I don’t know the question.

Courtney (05:39.723)
Yeah

Travis (05:39.894)
I don’t know if we made a last change here. So, okay, cool. So we’ll just,

Yep, you’re clear again. Everything looks good.

Scott Fuller (05:48.634)
So if we freeze like that again, we just need to pause and regroup. Is that how you want to do it or do now it’s, are y’all there? What is going on?

Courtney (05:54.839)
So.

Travis (05:55.998)
I he’s just gone. man, this is okay. Now we’re going to have two different videos. This is a rough day for the podcast. I hate that. Yeah. Yeah. But okay.

Courtney (06:04.919)
We got a big one coming up, so.

Scott Fuller (06:12.811)
That is wild. So it just quit and I had to go, you know, come back on. But I’m sure when I have full, I mean my wifi.

Travis (06:19.32)
Come back in. Yep. Okay.

Travis (06:24.098)
Yeah.

Scott Fuller (06:25.805)
Hmm.

I don’t know what to say about that. This never happened.

Travis (06:34.328)
Hope.

Courtney (06:36.119)
We’re still recording, right Travis? Like it hasn’t stopped or did it stop now?

Travis (06:41.486)
still recording. But the weird thing is even though when he disappeared, like a lot of time, I don’t know, I guess we still kept recording. But it doesn’t show that he ever stopped. Anyway, we’ll just pick it back up. Yep.

Scott Fuller (06:41.581)
Let’s see.

Scott Fuller (06:55.501)
Okay, well, we’ll see what happens. It’s probably Xfinity, but I’m going, I’ve got a full…

Travis (07:04.045)
Yeah, and you’re super clear. So I think we’ve had some little glitches sometimes like this, but it’ll be edited. It’ll be fine. So if we notice it again, like, did you notice that he completely froze for a little bit or? Yeah, and that’s where, but we had a guest on a couple of weeks ago that that happened, right? And it happened like once or something that was kind of fine. So, okay. So I’m going to assume that I think that whole intro of your celebration was all captured. So.

Courtney (07:16.555)
Yeah.

Scott Fuller (07:24.225)
Okay.

Scott Fuller (07:28.023)
Thank you.

Scott Fuller (07:31.881)
Yeah. On my end, it stopped where she had asked the question and I was starting to answer. I believe the second question about history somewhere in there, we were getting.

Travis (07:33.697)
Okay.

Travis (07:40.066)
Okay.

Travis (07:44.342)
Okay. So we, so that’s, that was kind of a perfect little stop off point anyway, cause we actually made a gaffe on that. We’re going to go back to the, so the question I’ll be asking you is where did your involvement with Voss here begin? That’s where we pick it up. Okay. All right. All right. Well, thanks Scott for bringing us into just kind of that time of celebration. And like you said, looking back historically at all the amazing and beautiful work, you know, your organization has been part of, and then to celebrate that with even some of the

Courtney (07:49.623)
Yes.

Courtney (08:01.577)
Thanks to Arthur for bringing us into this kind of time of celebration and looking back, historically, all the amazing, beautiful work.

Travis (08:13.742)
current residents and, you know, just staff has got a, what was indeed a powerful time it sounded like. So we would love to hear about your own personal kind of journey into this space. So where did your involvement with foster care begin? And then what led you to the, role at the children’s center?

Courtney (08:17.225)
So we would love to hear about your own.

Courtney (08:25.579)
Thank

Thank

Scott Fuller (08:32.331)
Yeah, yeah, thank you. So my story really goes way back. As I look back across my life, my grandparents, my paternal grandparents worked at Georgia Baptist Children’s Home. So when I was in elementary school, they were serving in a cottage as house parents for a group of boys.

I didn’t know a whole lot about it, you know, had some interaction with the young man there. But just in that formative years of my life, my grandparents caring for children and in my own conscience, being aware of their children who don’t have parents, something happened. And so I was quickened by all that as a young boy.

but didn’t really think a whole lot of it, you know, because I was so young. But from that point on through high school, you know, conversion, you know, I’m a Christian and began to, though I was going to go to law school, politics, that was kind of my career path. ended up, life situations ended up going into ministry with a desire to study the scriptures and

And so I was ordained minister at Presbyterian Church for many years. And after organizing a church in the mountains of North Carolina, was gifted a severance, a time for my family to kind of recover and figure out what’s the next step. And during that period of sabbatical time, a friend and knowing I had spent some time right out of college working at a children’s home,

up in Crossnore, Crossnore School for Children, for those who may be familiar, I worked there for a little bit. So when I came here, came down to Rome during that interim Sabbath time, I was looking to do something and a friend introduced me to Murphy Harps. And I thought, let me go get involved, do youth work, something easy in the interim before, you know, moving on to the next church or whatever. And just quite honestly,

Scott Fuller (10:54.793)
When I landed at Murphy Harps, I landed to work in a cottage with the kids to do something kind of very low level. And I did not realize the level of trauma, behavioral disorders, the trouble that so many children were faced with in the foster care system. And I just entered into that world and was hijacked by the kids, I’ll say.

Travis (11:01.516)
Travis (11:11.608)
Hmm.

Courtney (11:19.861)
Mm-hmm.

Scott Fuller (11:21.617)
my career path altered because of the real realization of the hurt. And not only just seeing children who were languishing and hurting and just being burdened by that reality, but seeing a system itself buckling under the weight of and underfunded. just began one month turned into a year now, 10 years, roll up my sleeves. How can I help push this all forward?

Travis (11:39.736)
Hmm.

Travis (11:50.094)
Hmm.

Scott Fuller (11:51.551)
and bring resources and support for these youth. So, know, bookends, you know, from a childhood to a different time in ministry, you know, the Lord and circumstances just moved me into this field. So I feel like I’ve really been hijacked in some ways by these kids.

Travis (11:57.452)
Mm-hmm.

Courtney (12:13.425)
Yeah. And you said 10 years now you’ve been there. Is that right? 10 years. Okay. So what you thought was a short little stint.

Travis (12:14.67)
straight.

Scott Fuller (12:16.599)
Been at Murphy Harps for 10 years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had a special moment too, during that time. There a lot of other stories, but, you know, my dad was in law school when I was in first, second, third grade in Athens, Georgia. Go dogs. But my best friend lived across the street. His dad was in law school with my dad. And so…

Travis (12:35.15)
You

Scott Fuller (12:44.333)
Several years ago at Murphy Harps, I’m there, a new board member walks in, I get introduced to her, and it’s my best friend’s mom. I hadn’t seen her since I was in elementary school. So she’s been our board chair for the past six years. So there’s been these special moments of the journey with the youth at Murphy Harps in my life that has just kind of held on to me and me holding on to that agency.

Travis (13:00.76)
Hmm.

Travis (13:13.23)
haha

Scott Fuller (13:13.663)
Yeah, special place really is.

Courtney (13:16.161)
That’s great. Let’s dive into that a little bit more about the special place that it is. know, Murphy-Harpst with a legacy of care for kids. Again, like we said, a hundred years for the kids in care in Georgia. Tell us more about that, about how it’s evolved over the years and maybe specifically the innovative and therapeutic programming that you guys offer today.

Travis (13:16.301)
cool.

Scott Fuller (13:35.969)
Wow, thank you. So, 100 years, we carry the name of our founders, Murphy Harpst, Ms. Sarah Murphy, and Ethel Harpst. Mama Sarah, Sarah Murphy was the daughter of former slaves, a Spelman College student who burdened for her community, became an itinerant educator moving from fields and farming.

pulling the children out of the fields, teaching them to read and write. And the great pandemics of the 1920s, 30s, decimated families, Great Depression. And so she and her husband Shug, their motto was, we’ll make room. And they brought children into their own home without a whole lot of resources available to them. They continued to take children.

and educate them and care for them and began the Murphy Home, an orphanage back in the 1930s. A lot of wonderful story about this woman and the sacrifices, the personal pain that she endured in the way of love to take in children. And then our other founder, Ms. Ethel Harpst, she was a home missioner.

Travis (14:49.678)
Hmm.

Scott Fuller (14:59.597)
appointed by the Women’s Home Mission Society, a part of a broader Methodist movement. She was appointed to work in a settlement house in the poor milling village of Cedartown back in those days in the early, in 1914. And so she was providing education, health care to women and the last great influenza outbreak. Children found themselves without parents. And so she

began taking care of them in the settlement house and then the community rallied to help her move into a home on the hill where we currently reside. And through the generosity of the Women’s Home Mission Society, Pfeiffer Chemical back in the day, buildings were built to establish the orphanage and a place to take care of children. So Murphy Harps began.

with the Ethel Harps home in the 1920s, 24, and the Murphy home and the Harpst home both merged in the early 80s to form Murphy Harpst. So that’s our background and the reason we carry the name of our founders, such a marvelous history and testimony of their labor. And a lot’s changed in child welfare in our nation.

Travis (16:21.902)
Mm-hmm.

Scott Fuller (16:24.395)
We now through a lot of that labor, we have public education, which we did not have. We have Medicare. There are a lot of medical educational resource available to youth that were not available back then. And so as we’ve evolved through the years, Murphy Harps has always had an eye to the most vulnerable youth.

Travis (16:41.614)
Mm-hmm.

Scott Fuller (16:50.253)
And who are those, where are those children that we need to serve? And those youth in this state welfare system of terms of child welfare and state custody has been our focal point. And the therapeutic involvement, intensive therapy and support to children who are struggling with lifetimes of trauma.

not only because of perhaps the homes and environment of origin, but also because tragically because of a system that has its own challenges or broke qualities that maximizes or compounds that trauma. And so we have been working for many years with children in that particular arena, both in

Travis (17:30.604)
Mm-hmm.

Scott Fuller (17:47.841)
foster family homes and local communities as a child placing agency, has a specialized foster care kind of component, and then as a residential intensive therapeutic program in our campus-based program. That’s a quickie. There’s a lot more detail, but that’s an overview from the beginning to the current.

Travis (18:07.192)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Courtney (18:08.855)
Thank you.

Courtney (18:13.653)
him.

Travis (18:15.502)
Before we of go on further, you guys have the equine therapy program as well there, right? I mean, can you talk a little bit about that and what that’s been like?

Scott Fuller (18:23.933)
Yeah, sure. So our campus is 160 acres, the old, you know, Harpstone site and Murphy site. 160 acres, very farm pastoral kind of setting. On the hill, sort of a, we call a little bit, looks like a little, you know, liberal arts college environment. Beautiful, beautiful setting for these kids to, you know, to arrive at. But we do have in that area equine.

Travis (18:43.182)
Mm-hmm.

Scott Fuller (18:52.245)
you know, farming and agriculture was a big part of the early harpstone, actually. So we’ve continued that, but now focal point with the horses and animal assisted therapy, we use animals in our environment as a way of providing therapeutic and recreational opportunity for our kids. And, you know, for those, you know, in your, you know, in your audience, we’ll understand these kids who’ve been traumatized and hurt by

with relationships and by community. They struggle with trust. Many haven’t really ever had a place of trust because they cried in the crib and there was no one there to come and hear their cry and to share their burden. And so that first place of trust was never formed, you know, in a loving home. And so our kids arrived to us and they are trying, they’re learning.

be experiencing, you know, that for the first time. And an animal is often that first place. It’s a safe place for a child to be a child, for a child to feel non-threatened, to begin to express themselves. And our kids will go out with the horses and they’ll have like a secret time where they can take the horse of their choice. They usually have a horse they’re assigned to.

when they arrive and it’s their horse for the entire time that they’re there. But they can walk off around the corral on their own with the horse and just share whatever they want to share. And invariably, these kids are coming back with tears in their faces because they’ve been able to say out loud and to express themselves safely. And it’s with an animal. And so they bond very quickly, learn a lot of life skills.

Travis (20:44.066)
Mm-hmm.

Scott Fuller (20:47.649)
boundaries, very important things. I mean, we could do a whole segment on equine therapy, really. It’s a magical place, and I mean, that is the strictest sense of that term of what happens in the transformation of youth in that space. And that’s where, you know, a lot of folks don’t get kind of congregate type setting for children and child welfare. Very important.

Travis (20:51.682)
Yeah, yeah.

Courtney (20:54.901)
Mm-hmm.

Travis (21:03.576)
Hmm. Wow.

Courtney (21:05.726)
Yeah.

Travis (21:10.061)
Mm-hmm.

Scott Fuller (21:13.933)
We are able in our environment to provide a scope of services and experiences that are very important, particularly for the population of kids we’re serving, to be introduced to a bigger community and experiences that are life-changing.

Travis (21:28.558)
Yeah.

Travis (21:35.778)
Yeah. Well said. Well, that’s a great segue. We’re gonna, this is a really unique episode in that, you know, we’re going to definitely talk to Scott on, you know, this place of congregate care, residential group homes, and kind of our experiences around that as well. And then some insights and thoughts there in this conversation. you know, and you made a good point early on Scott and

Courtney (21:37.303)
That’s a great segue. This is a really unique episode of that. We’re going to definitely talk with Scott on the place of congregate care residents of Utah.

Courtney (21:52.919)
and then some of the types of thoughts there in this conversation. You know, and you a good point early on, Scott, sort of the full landscape, not only in Georgia, but

Travis (21:59.574)
sort of just the landscape, not only in Georgia, but nationally of just where child welfare has evolved and changed and there’s trends and there’s so much complexity. I always go back to this quote about child welfare being like a thimble full of water and a raging social fire, someone said. And that just kind of shows the dramatic nature of all that’s happening. In-group home care, and I think obviously this could be a whole multi-episode.

Courtney (22:04.279)
and friends and so much complexity. would be glad to hear some support about child welfare being a simple form of water and a way to…

And that just kind of shows, know, that’s the role of cabinet. In group home care, I think obviously this could be a whole multi-episodes of conversation, because there’s also a lot of, right, there’s a lot of nuance too in even describing that, in what quality of care, in therapeutic care, or anything like that. But it’s sort of a general thing. I wanted to set up my fan set.

Travis (22:27.596)
conversation because there’s also a lot of nuance too in even describing that and what kind of care and therapeutic care at a residential place. But in sort of a general thing, I wanted to set up by saying that we have seen a massive amount of closures nationally in group homes. Some of this has been around federal lawsuits against state’s child welfare systems and things that have gone on in those programs.

Courtney (22:49.015)
Some of this has been around federal law, even in states that are well-versed in things that have gone on in the program. There’s a lot of good reasons, and we will talk about it in a while. Another big change was in 2018.

Travis (22:57.23)
There’s a lot of good reasons and we’ll talk to some of that of why some group homes have closed and should close. Another big change was that in 2018, the Family First Prevention Services Act, which compliance had I think happened in 2021, really put a hit on group home care. It really wanted to make it much less of a strategy by child welfare.

Courtney (23:11.703)
I think what happens in 2021. To really put a bid on food point care, and really wanted to make it much less of a strategy for child welfare. And we’ve seen, I think, guess, some of the food points were still at like a 50 percent, about 50 there. Now in 2021, it went down to 9 percent, and I’m guessing, and I’m guessing it’s still there or less. So definitely.

Travis (23:24.43)
And we’ve seen, think I’ve read somewhere that in 2012 group homes were still at like a 15 % of all kids in care. Now in 2021, it went down to 9 % and I’m guessing nationally it’s still there or less. So we’ve definitely seen a massive decline. So with all of that to kind of set up this thing, let’s talk a little bit about what some of the myths are surrounding residential care.

Courtney (23:41.735)
All that’s gonna set up is them. Let’s talk a little bit about what some of the myths are surrounding.

Scott Fuller (23:49.805)
Wow, yeah. You know, I think the word institutionalized, I think, is the first thing that comes to mind. We don’t want to institutionalize a child, you know, where they’re, you know, locked into a clinical kind of cold that doesn’t allow the child to flourish, to grow, to be the child, right? So I think people think of residential or congregate facilities often

Courtney (23:51.287)
you

Scott Fuller (24:19.445)
you know, they think that means institutionalizing the child. While that is something, a challenge, obviously, it’s not a family home, right? That’s not necessarily the case with all congregate care facilities. You know, why our 160 acre campus, there’s no, you know, fences and walls, and it’s not like it’s an incarcerated state. And so there’s a

you know, there can be differences across the board of different residential, you know, the personality and the life of that campus. I mean, we are every bit of campus. know, a lot of people think of college and have good experiences with college campus, right? You know, there a lot of youth that go to, you know, boarding schools that have wonderful experiences. So I think first thing is just the too much emphasis on the

The fear of institutionalizing drives people away from seeing the real essential elements of a good congregate setting that provides the kind of resources children need. Does that follow? So that’d be one thing I would say. And that kids are just locked up and don’t have anything to do. just.

trained and can’t go play and under such a rigid situation that they don’t have opportunity. And that would be false, at least for Murphy Harps. have a very structured, very structured, the kids need it. But so those are I think some of the common things I’m hearing.

Travis (26:11.63)
Yeah. I mean, will you add to that Courtney? myths that like maybe they were dispelled for you when you kind of dealt with.

Courtney (26:17.761)
Yeah, I guess.

Yeah, I’ve had both good experiences and bad experiences, to be honest. In the state of Colorado, they’ve really buckled down and they have set some very, very strict rules on group home settings. And a lot of them had to get shut down because they just couldn’t follow those rules. And the rules are more like the things you’re talking about. Like we are not going to have more, don’t know, I can’t tell you the exact numbers, but so many kids in a room. Like, you you think of the old orphanage setting, which again, like you said, that’s the founding, but that’s what we had back.

Travis (26:44.716)
Right. Yeah.

Courtney (26:49.351)
That’s what we knew. We didn’t have the resources and stuff we have now. Now we see that that’s not the best care for kids. So in these group homes, how can we make them to be more of a home setting, a home feel? And that’s really what Colorado has done is they had said, we need these homes to be that home feeling where they feel like they are part of a home. They’re part of a family unit. They are not just in this institutionalized area where the pictures that we put in our minds, like you said, when we think of institutionalized care, that’s what we think about.

And that’s what we’re trying to get away from. My own daughter, she was placed in care. You know, this was over 10 years ago now in a home. She was eight years old and placed with girls that were much older than she was, many of them in a room, and learned of things, saw things, experienced things that she will say that traumatized her even more as an eight-year-old in care that she should not have experienced.

Scott Fuller (27:46.615)
Right.

Courtney (27:47.015)
You know, so there are there are some realities to having a lot of kids living together if if it’s not done well.

Scott Fuller (27:53.697)
Yeah. And I think that’s where seeing, learning more about, you know, what’s wrong, what’s not working in the congregate world, you know, and putting those regulations to help make it better, you know, to put limits, you know, like age limit, that’s, that’s a big deal. There’s a huge difference in age and in life experience. And, you know, there’s the benefit of being able, what knowledge we have.

Travis (28:22.862)
Mm-hmm.

Scott Fuller (28:23.275)
you know, mental health, behavioral, you know, years of kind of congregate kind of institutional kind of kind of setting. But, you know, the challenge is to create the policy in a way that does not hinder from doing it right, you know, doing it well. And I think what’s lost, at least in my experience, what I’m seeing the challenges that our current moment with all the closures.

Travis (28:40.674)
Right.

Scott Fuller (28:50.853)
is, you know, and I’m grateful for the support that we have around the state, you know, that we’ve been able to pivot, to innovate, to adapt, but having that setting answers the behavioral emotional needs of kids in a way that a foster family in some environments just don’t have the capacity to provide. I mean,

Travis (29:02.689)
Mm-hmm.

Scott Fuller (29:17.997)
We can take those teenagers early on and in an ordered environment, we can create community right away. These kids, they need community. They’re going to age out soon and go back to community. And so they’re having a sense of already having to adjust to a community, you know, and a lot of family and we pride ourselves in being in much of a family environment and work together as a team.

Travis (29:37.55)
Yeah.

Scott Fuller (29:47.597)
across the board. And so our kids get to know a lot of the adults and they’re part of the whole environment of care on our campus. And they’re able to go get the recreation. They can have the one-on-one therapy, group therapy, equine therapy. whereas it’s very difficult for that foster family, that small home setting to introduce those kids to community right away because they haven’t stabilized yet. They haven’t

quite gone through the process to, you know, to reach a point of stability where they would farewell in that foster family home right away. So I think our congregate setting really does a great job of helping the children as a first place for them to come and to begin to heal and recover and to be introduced to community and then to be introduced to a foster family or back out into community safely.

We can bring in church groups and volunteers and our kids and businesses come. Corporations are on our campus working with our kids. Our kids are seeing there’s a potential business. There’s a somebody that works at Georgia Power. Hey, I might work at Georgia Power, so there’s a sense of inspiration. That our kids and that teenage years they can get. In that setting, that’s very difficult to replicate.

for one foster family.

Travis (31:20.268)
Yeah, I mean, this really hits close to home to me, like in my story of residential group care. know, my wife and I have adopted and we were short term foster, licensed foster parents before adoption. But before that, we were at a group home, Thornwell Home for Children in South Carolina. And so a lot of what you’re talking about, Scott, you know, brings me right back to that. You know, this thing came up.

Courtney (31:23.287)
This way it’s closer home to me, like in my story, of how my wife and I have adopted and we were short-term wife and pocket hands before adoption. But before that, we were a group going on a tour in South Carolina. And so a lot of what you’re talking about is not, you know, bringing it right back to that. This thing came up.

Travis (31:48.066)
Post-Civil War, I think 1875. So some of the first, what they would have called orphans were kids from the Civil War. And I want to say it’s like 400 acre campus, massive. When you describe like a college campus, that’s what I thought it was. And we drove into town from St. Louis to like, to go there. I thought it was a college and the college was next door, PC Presbyterian College. But I think what’s important in this conversation, and you did a great job, Scott, of kind of.

Courtney (31:48.247)
post-Civil War, think 1875, this was the first, what they would have called, the worst war kids from the Civil War. And I want to say, 400 acres of campus, massive, and you described like a college campus, that’s what I thought it was, in the middle the town, from St. Louis, so like to go there. I thought it was a college, but when the college was next door, you could see the president college. But I think what’s important in this conversation is you did a great job, Scott, at the end of the

Travis (32:15.306)
And Courtney as well, of course, I think we’re trying to do here is to showcase to that. It’s all about, I mean, everyone is different and it’s hard to like every kid has different needs, but also every children’s home or foster home is incredibly different. So to lump them all into sort of this is the generality. And I can speak to this just in an interview. When we came down to Thornwell to interview, we were at children’s home in North Carolina that popped up in the process.

Courtney (32:15.383)
And important, well, I think what we’re trying to do here is to show that it’s all about, mean, everyone is different and it’s hard to like, every kid has different needs, but also every children’s home or foster home is incredibly different. So lump them all into sort of this is the generality. And I can speak to this just in the near future. We came down to the phone lump and we were children from North Carolina that popped up in the process.

Travis (32:43.668)
And I think the interview lasted like 30 minutes and we had the job as a couple. At Thornwell, it was a 10 hour interview and their role and goal in the interview was to weed you out. And they even involved the kids, high school kids that had been there to actually interview some of the potential parents coming in and weed them out. Almost like to ask them, hey, if you’re not going to be here with us, we don’t really want you here. Like, and in this way of protecting them. So

Courtney (32:43.807)
and I think the interview last week was 30 minutes and we haven’t done it in a couple of hours. That’s four hours, 10 hour interview. And their role and goal in the interview was

Scott Fuller (32:56.535)
Yeah.

Courtney (32:57.271)
And they even involve the kids, high school kids, that could then actually hear some of the potential parents coming in and use them out. I would like to ask them, hey, if you’re not going to be here with us, we don’t really want you here. And in this way of protecting them. So all that to say, what I had seen was, again, in the model that we came from was, it was a family teaching model with couples who were very much simulated having children, know, parents.

Travis (33:13.25)
All that to say, like what I had seen was again in the model that we came from was it was this family teaching model where it was couples. it very much simulated having true foster parents. They just rotate with another set of couples. was family centric, family feel the kids had allowance. had Disney trips, major sponsors, therapy on campus, all kinds of built in community and activities to the point where if you were especially

Courtney (33:27.383)
They just rotate and then they put a couple in. They a family center, family field, have allowance, have business trips, major sponsors, therapy on campus, all kinds of built-in community activities. To the point where if you were a special, I would say an older teenager in Fairview, where you still shot so well, but they’re about to navigate out anywhere, and there is a community vital in there. We’ve met a lot of those kids that made decisions.

Travis (33:44.064)
I would say an older teenager in care where you said Scott so well of like they’re about to navigate out anyway. mean, they’re so community is vital at this point. We have a lot of those kids that made the decision when they were ones were eligible to be adopted from foster care decided to stay because partly their peers were in care too. And there’s something to be said for that experience for those kids. Not every kid is this, but

Courtney (33:57.143)
were eligible for adoption of care. Which is a good thing because part of those years were in care. And it’s going to be just for that experience for those kids. Not every kid, but to be in foster care for 15 year old kids and for all those kids.

Travis (34:11.68)
to be in foster care as a 15 year old with friends who are also in care together.

Scott Fuller (34:17.482)
Yes, and we’ve got a transitional living program as a part of our residential so that we’ll routinely will have the youth moving from, you know, residential therapeutic program into that transitional where those are older teens that are going to age out. And so they’re entering into that program. And then even at age 21,

I mean, that’s where they age out, but they’ll stay after age 18 up to 21. They’re getting technical college kind of involvement. They’re working, you know, employed in the community. And so those become the peer leaders for other young people who know there’s not a foster family signing up tomorrow. You’re gonna take me. It’s a sad reality, but.

these kids aren’t like hopeless, like, okay, I’m just gonna be out on my own. There’s a pathway and in our residential, there are adults, communities, businesses, you know, that are there working with transitional living. That really gives a sense of hope to a child. They’re seeing other youth move forward and succeed, come back from college to visit us on campus. And that’s, we become that family in a way that’s important to them.

Travis (35:42.914)
Yeah, and I was just gonna add as well on the other side of things, again, not to overgeneralize either direction was that I also know at a place, and it sounds like Murphy’s Harps is very similar to what Thorma was, which I thought was an incredible place with incredibly loving parents, know, house parents that gave their all to these kids, some of the greatest people I’ve ever met in my life. With that being said,

Courtney (35:43.031)
Yeah, and I was just gonna add.

other side of things. Again, not to over generalize with the direction, was that I also know that a place in the South Bay, Murphy’s House, which very similar to Gono was, as I thought, an incredible place. With incredibly loving parents, know, parents that gave their all to, it’s like the greatest thing I’ve ever met in my life. With that being said, it was very healthy, supportive, heavily resource-based.

Travis (36:11.382)
in a very healthy, supportive, heavily resource place. When we had six to eight in our experience, elementary boys, there was plenty of days I thought, you know, as much as we’re showing them love and this is a very family feeling place, I don’t think I can give them the attention. Certain kids, especially that really needed that one-on-one, that would have gotten that better in a true foster home, where maybe they were the only child in there.

Courtney (36:16.279)
When we have six to eight in our school, elementary boys, there were plenty of days I thought, as much as we’re showing them love and that’s a very family feeling place, I don’t think I could give them the attention, certain to the staff that really needed that one on one, that would have gotten that better in a true fatherhood, or maybe they were the only child in there. And so again, that’s where you go back to what is the past. Man, I suck.

Travis (36:39.35)
And so again, you know, that’s where you go back to like, what is the best? Man, it’s tough because in those cases, I would say there were, that’s where the group home and even a great one underperformed. It wasn’t built for that.

Scott Fuller (36:39.383)
So.

Scott Fuller (36:43.745)
Yeah.

Courtney (36:45.495)
Because in those cases, would say that’s where the group, Holman-Lutton, has been a great one. Underperformed. It wasn’t built for that.

Scott Fuller (36:50.273)
Yeah. And that’s where we are endeavoring to provide the array of services at Murphy-Harpst that will meet those needs because every child is going to be different. do want, I mean, ideally, the goal to have that child in a family home, in a local community, growing and flourishing there through life for the longevity adopted.

That’s ideal, that’s what we aim for. But not every child, until every church or until every community starts lining up begging to take on these children, you know, the reality is they’re kids with behavioral, emotional issues, with really challenges that need support. And so we create that residential intensive care with therapy environment, transitional living, because they’re gonna age out.

and foster family recruitment and the extra training and support those families need with our consultants because they’re going to have challenging situations as fosterers. You know, we don’t want them to be in that situation where they’re burdened with the thing they never wanted to do and that is to give this child back to state custody because they cannot help this foster child. That, that just

that brings those numbers of recruitment down, right? So we provide that service and then with the evolve initiative, which is a real new approach to child welfare and services, we’re building out an array of services so that child can move from campus to transitional or from campus to fosterer or the foster parent who has a disruption and we’ve had this.

and it wasn’t working, well, we were able to bring the child onto the campus and the foster parents still be involved with campus and a part of his life. And so that child, you know, is able to play basketball and do things he wasn’t doing at the other. So now they have a basketball team. And so things were working out for that young man on campus. So the disruption was not as severe. And so we have with the array of services trying to create that umbrella.

Scott Fuller (39:12.799)
of you know for the child to be able to move and still be a part of our broader program and get services that are tailored to her or to him.

Courtney (39:26.775)
Yeah. And it’s just reality. mean, our family is a therapeutic foster home. we take, know, a is in a traditional foster home, isn’t doing well there, they’ll kind of level them up into our home. And then if it’s like even more than they go into the congregate care, or we often get the kids when they leave congregate care, kind of the model in Colorado is they come to a therapeutic home, and then they kind of level down into a traditional and then hopefully eventually go home. So we’re kind of like that in between. So we see both sides of it. And it really can be a beautiful thing when

Travis (39:27.043)
Yeah.

Courtney (39:55.113)
All areas are working together and we need that. We don’t have nearly enough foster homes and not even close to nearly enough therapeutic homes, right? So you’ve got these brand new foster homes that are taking in kids who have really big mental health things they’re struggling with and they’re quitting. They’re saying, can’t do this. And there’s very few therapeutic homes that have the extra training to know how to do this. And so there’s a reality that we need congregate care settings because we just don’t have enough families.

Travis (39:56.742)
huh.

Travis (39:59.981)
Right.

Travis (40:04.962)
Hmm.

Travis (40:13.282)
Right.

Travis (40:23.694)
Right, Yeah.

Scott Fuller (40:24.257)
And this is important for us to hash out this and get this word out there because state policy and public policy affects so much here. Kids are in state custody and with the Families First Act, there is the goal for local preventative care and in foster family. All of that is well intended and great.

Travis (40:36.718)
Mm-hmm.

Travis (40:51.918)
Mm-hmm.

Scott Fuller (40:52.065)
but often missed is the, we’ve pivoted away from a congregate and with therapeutic needs rising, the traumas that being revealed, manifest right now are beyond what we would have anticipated perhaps. And so, to have public policy fund well, those congregate care facilities and incentives to help

with recruitment for fosterers, training for fosterers, so that we able to bring the skills and resources to the front line. Because it’s overwhelming, really is. Georgia has 2,300, last I heard a couple weeks ago from the capital, 2,300 foster families serving the 12,000 or so kids. So there’s a 10,000,

Travis (41:43.82)
Mm-hmm.

Wow.

Scott Fuller (41:49.717)
gap, placement gap for children and family homes. Of course, 80 % we’re already hearing from records, 80 % of kids in foster care have mental health challenges. So out of that 10,000, there are a lot of kids who are dealing with lifetimes of languishing. then as you mentioned, Travis, I Georgia’s fifth enclosure rate.

Travis (42:18.062)
Hmm.

Scott Fuller (42:18.653)
in the United States. So we had 361 closures over last five years. And so kids are in hotels, they’re moving here and there, staying in psychiatry. we’ve, people need to see there’s a place for congregate and you know, done well, eating needs and foster family like what you’re doing in terms of a real therapeutic support that understands kids that come from hard places.

Travis (42:36.44)
well.

Scott Fuller (42:47.181)
and can be there with them in that home setting, which is probably a lot like what we’re trying to do with the Evolve initiative, localizing in a family-styled setting.

Travis (43:03.714)
Yeah. Well, to put a bow on this part, yeah, it’s summed up well when there’s major gaps as well. And you’ve got kids languishing in, know, child welfare offices or hotels over and over again, cause there’s half or less the families of Georgia. That’s mind blowing. That’s way less than half the families needed. So it’s like, you know, the alternative then is also then you’re what in a hotel with hardly any support. So I think when you start looking at it holistically and going, you know,

Courtney (43:15.255)
over and over again to half or less families in Georgia. That’s fine. That’s a less than half of families in Georgia. it’s like, know, the alternative then is also then your what in the hotel with RV and support. So I think when you start looking at it holistically and going, know, things continue, maybe not all be taken off the table or put back on the table in a smart way. You’re also seeing group homes that think you’re too for, um.

Travis (43:33.57)
things continue to maybe not all be taken off the table or put back on the table in really smart ways. mean, you are also seeing group homes, I think, retooling for where they’re becoming this kind of a hybrid thing where maybe it’s that cottage that might have housed way more kids back in the day may now only house a few. And then it’s like two sets of foster parents, you know, maybe that alternating time or whatever, but then it’s a therapeutic place now that

Courtney (43:43.831)
where they’re becoming kind of a hybrid thing where maybe that cottage that might have housed way more kids back in the day may now only house a few and then it’s like you set the soccer ground, you know, maybe you guys have some time or whatever, then it’s a therapeutic place now. So you know what, they’re still in the scene too in what you’re portraying.

Travis (44:03.116)
So, you know, mean, they’re still in the scene too in important ways that trying to figure it out.

Scott Fuller (44:06.741)
Right. And I know that with the Families First Act, one part of it is the QRTP, the qualified residential treatment program, which is a part of that whole rollout of Families First so that kids in psychiatric treatment facilities have a step down to move them safely down in levels of care so that they can be able to, you know,

be placed in a family home. And so Murphy Harps is the first agency in the state to be providing that service. So we have a program, fewer kids in a program, they’re on our residential campus, taking kids straight from the psychiatric treatment facility as a 30 to 60 day step down unit. But they have access then to the equine and all the stuff there.

And so some of them will move from there to residential, then to foster family or can move down to our Evolve Home, which is just houses for children in a local community. So we’ve got a lot of pieces going on.

Courtney (45:22.679)
Thanks for sharing and just hashing this out a little bit because again, I hear it a lot. mean, you hear horror stories, you hear the myths, hear, know, people just don’t understand the system as a whole. And that’s a big, just that misconception itself is understanding what the system really is and how it works. And that’s that level down, that step down, why that’s important. So yeah, it’s an important conversation to have.

Scott Fuller (45:45.421)
Yeah. And at the end of the day, I look at all these, these youth that we’re serving it and, they’re the most resilient and courageous, people I know. mean, what they’ve been through and what they’re doing and doing and, to see them forge forward and succeed and,

when a community rallies to their side, that’s a special place, special kids to serve and our communities will be the better for the investment. To have those youth as adults in our world. So appreciate what both of you do to get that word out and serve youth.

Travis (46:34.284)
Yeah, thanks Scott. I will look back and say, whatever I taught kids that I got to mentor or be part of, I learned way more from them.

Scott Fuller (46:42.475)
Yeah, yep. That’s why I Murphy Harps now 10 years later. Yeah, it’s been the Lord’s pedagogical tool in my own life over the years, both as a parent of my own kids and sort of parenting, as it were, with Murphy Harps and the youth there. We’re learning a lot. Yeah.

Courtney (46:48.023)
Yeah

Travis (47:00.046)
Mm-hmm.

Courtney (47:10.519)
Well, Scott, how would you finish this sentence? What kids in foster care really need is…

Scott Fuller (47:19.601)
loving, attentive, stable adults, investing their time in their lives. It is quantity time. It is time with stability and care and love, the patience. It’s our future.

Our communities, the future of our communities, I think will be the more beautiful for the labor to raise up children. And these are wonderful children. I just, yeah, we need those adults with big hearts and give their time and not be so concerned for their career and their ambition. Because we live in you know,

We live in a very wealthy, resourceful world at this hour. And there are children languishing for an adult and for the time that that adult to be in their life, you know, and that’s just not, it is for every parent with the child, but it’s for the communities of Georgia, Colorado, South Carolina, wherever we are for kids in our counties.

that don’t have those adults that were hurt by those adults, they need to be embraced and we need to give them time. We need to give them the time and the attention because they’re the future and the future of a beautiful community. So that’s what I’d say. And I’d love to love to talk to anybody just entertaining the idea in Georgia about how, can I get involved? Should I get involved? Can I be a foster parent? Can I, know, what would it look like just to kind of volunteer? I would love to talk with them.

Courtney (49:06.135)
Hmm.

Scott Fuller (49:16.397)
We’re here to help prepare other adults to be there for these kids.

Courtney (49:24.759)
So speak a little more into that. If somebody was interested in saying, Hey, I want to do something. I’m hearing this. want to do something. How can Georgia folks learn more about you and resources or ways to get involved?

Scott Fuller (49:36.365)
Thank you. So MurphyHartst, M-U-R-P-H-Y, H-A-R-P-S-T dot org. Our website’s a great resource of history, what we’re doing and a way to get in touch with us. I would love for those who are nearby and in Georgia, want a chance to volunteer to see what residential community’s like. To do some volunteer work, we’ve got a ton of opportunities on our campus and foster families that could use support.

in local communities. reach out to us. We’d love to get you volunteering and what always, you know, as you know, the resource of heart and of folks to provide the funding. You know, we don’t do this alone with the state funding. We do this with the partnerships of donors who care. Not everybody can be a fosterer.

Travis (50:20.11)
Mm-hmm.

Scott Fuller (50:31.821)
We all don’t do the same thing, but we all can do something. And there are people who are great champions and advocates with their donation and their commitment with us month to month. So if there are any folks want to just get to know a little bit more about Murphy Harps and what we’re doing and get involved in foster care world in Georgia, I would love to speak with them.

Courtney (50:54.815)
And for those of you that are listening, there are homes like this across the nation in pretty much every single state. and again, a lot of reforms been done. Most of them probably this day and age are great homes, very similar, apply similar mindsets and similar setups. So I encourage you, like if you’re not in Georgia, I’m not in Georgia, go check out or reach out to somebody that would know where you can get involved in your own state as well.

Travis (51:15.726)
Mm-hmm.

Travis (51:21.422)
We’ll have a link to Murphy Harps in the show notes. yep. Send people names. What was the spelling on that again? me, we can check that out. So yeah.

Scott Fuller (51:30.497)
can spell it easier than I can say it.

Travis (51:32.813)
haha

Courtney (51:34.075)
Me too, obviously. No, Scott, thanks for joining us today. We appreciate this conversation, appreciate what you’re doing and keep making a difference for those kids because they matter.

Travis (51:35.669)
Hahaha

Scott Fuller (51:45.719)
Yeah, thank you. Appreciate your giving me the opportunity to join you today and the fraternity of Care for Kids. Appreciate

Travis (51:55.192)
Inspired by your word, Scott. Thank you.

Scott Fuller (51:57.069)
Thank you.