This conversation delves into the emotional complexities of foster care, recovery from addiction, and the journey of reunification. Selena and Ashley share their personal experiences, highlighting the grief associated with foster care transitions, the challenges of recovery, and the hope that comes from redemption. They discuss the importance of community support for foster parents and the essential needs of children in the foster care system, emphasizing stability, structure, and love. This is a powerful, honest, and moving conversation.
TRANSCRIPT:
Brian (00:01.631)
Welcome to the Foster Friendly podcast. I’m Brian Mavis, your host with my co-host, the Plangent Travis. Yes. It’s better than that. So Ashley and Selena, we’ll be introducing you in a moment and I won’t give you any adjectives, but I always like to introduce my host with an adjective that he doesn’t understand. And so.
Travis (00:09.251)
Plangent that sounds like plantar fasciitis or something. Is that like that?
Okay.
Brian (00:27.701)
Uh, plant, Plangent means that you have a rich toned voice. Uh huh. Yes. All right. Yeah. We’ll see how Selena and Ashley sound and see if that adjective can be applied to them. So, uh, uh, the Travis, the guests we have today, uh, I’ve seen their story. We’ve recorded it. It is a beautiful story, an amazing story of hope.
Travis (00:32.793)
okay, well thank you
Ashley Darrow (00:38.318)
We’ll see how Selena actually sings.
Travis (00:43.321)
Ha
Travis (00:49.369)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (00:56.659)
and healing and reunification and really looking forward to our listeners getting to hear from Ashley and Selena today. So let’s start with just a brief introductions from both of you. So Ashley Darrow, Ashley, why don’t you just give us a little update of who you are today, where you live and your family, just to share a minute of Ashley’s bio.
Ashley Darrow (01:24.75)
Hi everybody, I’m Ashley Darrow and I live in Lakeland, Florida. I’m married, been married for about 10 years now and I have an amazing son who’s in college right now. And I love being a mom, love being a small business owner. I love serving at my local church and my community and just being a part of the world.
Brian (01:49.311)
Great. Ashley, we love having you here. And Selena Whitley, Selena, introduce yourself to the podcast world.
Travis (01:49.465)
Very cool.
Selena Whitley (01:57.725)
Thanks. I’m Selena. I live in Bonaire, Georgia near the Warner Robbins area. I’ve been married to my husband, Tony, for almost 28 years. We have five kids, ages 21 down to 11. Our oldest two are biological and then our younger three we adopted through foster care back in 2019. I am a
Travis (02:09.037)
Mmm.
Brian (02:18.239)
Thank
Selena Whitley (02:27.821)
reluctant and still surprised homeschool mom who didn’t mean to do that, but it’s a beautiful, part of our story. Yes, it does. It’s a beautiful part of our story. My husband’s a pastor and he also is a missionary with a Parachurch ministry. And I just, I love serving in our church. I love
Travis (02:32.291)
Ha ha ha ha.
Haha
Brian (02:35.701)
That happens.
Travis (02:38.307)
Ha ha ha.
Selena Whitley (02:56.817)
ministering to women and especially young moms. It just really is a delight to me.
Travis (03:07.639)
Well, we thought that sort of as at the time of this recording, it’s summer is just a step away. So just asking you guys before we get into this podcast, more of the questions about your own stories. What is a favorite family vacation that either of you have?
Travis (03:31.737)
place where they don’t have any they’ve okay well that that
Brian (03:32.105)
They don’t have any. okay. Okay, all right.
Selena Whitley (03:32.253)
I’ll go first. No, I do. I’ll go first. So my husband’s super handy and a while ago we purchased a 40 foot school bus and converted it into an RV for our family.
Ashley Darrow (03:38.222)
you
Travis (03:50.809)
Mmm.
Brian (03:51.657)
man, you are speaking Travis’s love language. You have no idea. Yeah, okay. That’s true. Yeah.
Travis (03:54.937)
No, it’s PTSD. Yep.
Selena Whitley (03:55.26)
Yeah.
well, yeah, yeah, that was an adventure in itself, just the conversion. then during COVID, we we took two weeks and our five kids and we drove the entire Eastern seaboard. And it was just it was a dream trip. But everything was shut down in terms of like our normal summer activities are slammed and.
Brian (04:15.189)
Wow.
Selena Whitley (04:25.883)
was like a once in a lifetime opportunity to have time like that. We haven’t had it before or since, and we just made the best memories and a lot of stuff was closed, but we saw what we could see and we did what we could do and it was wonderful. No, we sold it last year. Yeah.
Brian (04:31.527)
Hmm.
Brian (04:39.765)
Do you still have this bus?
Brian (04:43.975)
Okay, Actually, before we go to yours, have to have Travis share why he has PTSD.
Travis (04:46.093)
Wow, that’s cool.
Travis (04:52.939)
Okay. I will make this very quick. Jesse and I back in the day, watched too much HGTV and got very excited about renovating a Greyhound bus, which I got off eBay in Southern Georgia, Selena, somewhere maybe down. And so I remember arriving on site and realizing like, there is no way I can drive this at all.
Selena Whitley (04:58.013)
You
Ashley Darrow (05:03.596)
Ha ha ha.
Ashley Darrow (05:13.454)
And so, we’ll about
Brian (05:14.672)
Travis (05:22.425)
So I had a school bus driver drive it home and he was sweating buckets and he’s a, he’s a certified school. And I was like, there’s no way. So it literally sat in our driveway for probably like eight months with permanent permanent wheel indents. So because it was, yeah. So that’s the, my story.
Brian (05:30.057)
Hehe
Ashley Darrow (05:34.798)
Hey.
Brian (05:40.695)
huh. Yeah, yeah, I love that. All right, Ashley, do you have something that won’t trigger Travis?
Ashley Darrow (05:45.39)
I do. I mean, it’s nothing about a bus, but it was definitely a road trip we took last summer. My son graduated and we were all excited about that. And a couple of weeks later, we left out to California. We started out in LA. We went to Death Valley. We went over to Mammoth Falls, Yosemite. And then, yeah. And then we were ended up
Brian (05:52.159)
Hahaha
Huh?
Brian (06:10.357)
wow.
Ashley Darrow (06:13.834)
on the coast at a beautiful place. think it’s called Point Reyes. It’s a national seashore, gorgeous. And then we flew out of San Francisco, which we liked it there too. So it was just a magical, magical time.
Brian (06:27.477)
Two road trip stories, one on the east and one out west. I love it, man. It sounds like we planned it up. Book ended it. I love this. Yeah, you guys are doing really well. Okay, keep going. Yeah.
Travis (06:29.369)
That’s amazing.
Travis (06:35.961)
It is! That’s so-
We’re off to a good start!
Okay, so thank you guys. just for it’s kind of a little fun personal sneak peek. Now we’re gonna get into sort of your journey together. There’s a great line by the writer, Terry Pratchett, who says, people think that stories are shaped by people. In fact, it’s the other way around. Today has an episode that I think is a way to challenge some of our preconceptions, inspire us and definitely shape even how maybe some of us have looked at.
Bio parents and foster care were foster parents or kind of the whole arc of the thing. So with that being said, Ashley, if you could just sort of bring us into, know, know, the circumstances a little bit surrounding your son getting involved with child welfare and your initial feelings and experiences of him being put into the foster care system, just kind of that part of your journey.
Ashley Darrow (07:40.342)
Okay, so kind of in order for me to go there, I have to tell you that after I gave birth to Ashton, my son, 2006, I had multiple blood clots on my brain and I almost died. And it was a really big touch and go. I was in there several weeks, maybe a month or something. And at one point they didn’t think I was going to make it, but I was heavily medicated.
And so even leaving the hospital, they sent me home with medications, really strong ones, but also ones that were, you know, blood thinning medications. And the doctors back then didn’t really, it’s not like it is today where there’s all this awareness about narcotic medications and the dangers of abuse and all this and that.
So sent home, just told, take all this medication as prescribed. You your life depends on it, you know? And so I spent my 21st birthday in the neuro ICU and I was a single mom. So I’m going home after this traumatic, you know, physical issue and I’ve got a newborn and I’m not working and the dad’s not in the picture. And it, you know, just…
Brian (08:42.655)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Darrow (09:04.957)
recipe for depression and anxiety and fear of dying and gonna die again and or you know that fear of is something gonna happen and I’m gonna leave my son and So I I began to take the medication as prescribed But then it I realized it was like something kind of switched where I realized like this helps numb pain It helps quiet thoughts. It helps me cope. It helps me get through the day
And so then I started taking more and until it got to the point the doctors would stop giving it to me. And then at this time I’m full-fledged addicted. And so I’m buying it on the street and wherever I could. they have a term, you guys may be familiar with it, but doctor shopping where you’d go around and you tell your story to all these doctors and try to get what you could.
You just, you know, I didn’t want an addiction like that, but that’s what happened. And I’m thankful today that there’s better awareness of that. So anyways, the addiction progresses and I’ve tried to get, you know, kind of clean a few times. It didn’t really work and, you know, trying from one thing to another thing to help. I ended up using even harder.
substances trying to get off of this substance and then you get hooked with friends and a lifestyle you meet people you never would have came in contact with and My life just spirals. I’m kind of out of control. I I’m like full-fledged addicted I’ve got this son who’s you know looking at me and we’re living house to house because I was you know kicked out of my mom’s house and
you know, just living here and there wherever I could, very unstable for him. And this one place we were staying, my son had told me he was, someone was abusing him. So I took him to the doctor first and they were just like, there was nothing they really could do. And then I was like, well, I’m going to take him to the hospital. I think I tried to file a police report and
Ashley Darrow (11:24.962)
You know, they told me not to take him to the hospital, but I did because I was worried. however, I’m an addict, you know, and the doctor at the hospital, the night that I brought him in, he worked at my private practice that had just discharged me for drugs in my system. And he saw the state I was in, he knew my situation, he, you know.
my son was there and I guess he immediately called DCF. And at the time we were homeless because there was no way I was going to go back to the place that we were staying with him, you know. So they called DCF and the police arrived and the caseworker arrived and you know they kind of explained to me what was going to happen, that they were going to remove him from my custody.
Travis (12:14.669)
Hmm.
Brian (12:18.909)
So Ashley, before we go further down that path, Selena, we’re gonna have you introduce your story. So at the same time that Ashley’s life is hitting rock bottom, you’re starting to look into foster care. So tell us about that journey and then bring us to the point where your life intersects with Ashley’s.
Selena Whitley (12:43.425)
Okay. So my husband was an adoptee. He was adopted by Kinship Foster Placement. He moved in with them when he was 10 and then he was adopted when he was 16. So when we got married, adoption always was kind of, well, initially it was adoption was kind of on the table for discussion, always like,
Maybe one day, maybe we’ll consider that. We hadn’t pursued that a lot after we got married and my husband as an adult adoptee went through some dealing with what that meant in his life and was he ready to adopt? And he said that he was not, but he was ready to foster. We had some friends who were foster parents.
in our community that we were very close friends with. My husband was serving on staff at our church and at that time our governor’s wife, her platform was foster care reform. And so a lot of the churches were doing foster care ministry kind of in support of that. And we had gotten sort of pulled into that ministry at our church that was already going on. then just, was like,
Travis (13:42.393)
Thank
Selena Whitley (14:10.535)
coming at us from all sides. Like the timing was right. My youngest child was entering kindergarten. So I felt like it was a good time for us to just, we had a little margin, you know, like a little, we had an extra room at the extra seat at the table. We had an extra bed. We had an extra seat in the car. had, you know, all these things were coming together where we felt like we really can’t deny what we’ve seen or has been open to the issue.
Travis (14:28.408)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Selena Whitley (14:39.855)
our eyes have been open to our margin, to our extra, if you will. And so was one of those things where we could not say no. And so we obviously took the classes and…
It’s a long process here where we are, you know, from when you make that initial call that says, hey, I’m interested in being a foster parent. It’s at that time was this was back in 2012 was at least well, 2011, we started the process. It was at least a year, you know, for you to go through the classes, have your home study done, receive your license and then receive a placement. So that sort of was our.
Travis (14:58.893)
Mm-hmm.
Travis (15:13.742)
Mmm.
Selena Whitley (15:24.345)
our entry into foster care.
Travis (15:27.257)
Okay. So before we continue the stories of Ashley and then your, you know, this convergence of, know, going into the journey, did either of you have preconceptions of the other in terms of kind of who you represented here as a birth parents with a child in foster care and then as a foster parent?
Ashley Darrow (15:53.802)
I can answer. I really didn’t have any knowledge of the system or even how it worked. You know, growing up, I we never had that in our life, but, you know, people would say things like, there’s a child law. They’ll come and get you if you don’t behave. But, you know, I didn’t understand what that was or what that even looked like. More or less what a foster family.
did or what it looked like. So I had no preconceived ideas or anything going into it. I was brand new to the entire experience.
Selena Whitley (16:36.197)
I guess for us, because my husband’s situation, he was removed from his home because of abuse and neglect. I had a lot of preconceived notions, you know, because it hit really close to home and the stories that, you know, he shared with me about his upbringing and how the abuse came to be and just having a neglectful parent. Yes, I had a lot of preconceived notions. I would say…
I’m not proud of my preconceptions, by the way. I wish that I hadn’t had them. I feel like I would have entered with a much more open mind to see specifically the moms as just people. I couldn’t do that at the time. That came with experience. But I think I thought, like, well, they chose that. I mean…
Travis (17:09.977)
Yeah.
Travis (17:34.328)
Yeah.
Selena Whitley (17:34.605)
how selfish could you be to put your child in a situation like that? Or I just couldn’t see that there could be any why behind it at all.
Travis (17:44.665)
Hmm.
Brian (17:46.709)
So both of you now just walk us through the rest of this journey and you guys just kind of, if you want, know, ping pong off each other or just take a moment at a time. Ashley, tell us about a little bit more about the treatment, you know, at very beginning of foster care and then you guys meeting each other and then having those preconceived notions get, you know.
abolished and then how your relationship together led towards reunification.
Travis (18:16.889)
Hmm.
Ashley Darrow (18:25.39)
So, after that experience at the hospital and they took my son and there was like a court date and I still really didn’t know much of anything and at the time, being on the drugs, my mind was not, mental health was going. The hospital was a bad day. I look at it like, man, that’s the worst day of my life then.
But it actually ended up being one of the best days now that I look back because it’s exactly what I needed to start on a direction to get well, to get stability for my son. so after court, you know, they kind of let me know, hey, he’s with some people and, this here’s the visitation. This is when you’ll show up and get to see your son and this and that. So I remember.
early on, I probably fit every one of Selena’s preconceived notions. I was mentally not there. I think we had a couple rough interactions where I just, I wasn’t understanding the process. I didn’t understand what was going on. And I was doing a little bit of outpatient and quickly learned that that was not gonna get me.
sober, wasn’t going to get me well. It was, you know, not enough for me. And I ended up in a long term treatment facility inpatient. But, you know, it really hit me that, you know, he was with another mom, you know, when I saw Selena, she left one day and she put him in the car seat.
he had his little sippy cup and his snacks or whatever she had for him. And I thought, wow, this woman is raising my son. And I gotta do something about that. Not against her, just it made me want to, that’s my job. And I don’t know how I’m gonna get well and how this is gonna look. And I was scared to death. I didn’t have a lot of support, but I knew that I had to do it.
Travis (20:34.766)
Right.
Ashley Darrow (20:45.226)
I’ve always wanted to be a mom, you know? And I love my son even when I was sick and it didn’t look like it, you know? Ashley, you’re not loving him very well, you’re neglecting, but inside I was sick and I just wanted a chance and an opportunity to get well, get on my feet. at this point I was like, I just want my son back.
Travis (21:10.809)
you
So honest.
Brian (21:15.111)
Yeah, Ashley, I just want to pause here and just thank you for your vulnerability. already, I think a lot of people are empathizing with you. So, Selena, take us along this same time frame. What’s happening in your world?
Selena Whitley (21:35.899)
Well, it was just an instant love for Ashton. He’s a great, great guy. And he always was just so sweet. And he was very compliant and kind. mean, in thinking back, Ashley had obviously done a really great job.
He was our first placement. So, you know, we didn’t have any, any other things to judge it by. but now having had so many placements through the years, Ashley was doing a really good job. And I just couldn’t see that, at the time. but he was such a great little guy and he was doing well in school and my kids loved him and
Travis (22:19.181)
Hmm.
Selena Whitley (22:34.115)
So he really did just become part of the family, you know, and the bond was pretty instant for us. I don’t know for him, but overall, I think we were just fiercely, fiercely protective because we saw a vulnerable little boy with so much potential.
And we had so much love for him. The idea of reunification, which is always the goal of foster care. And we knew that and we agreed to that and we supported that a hundred percent. But the idea of reunification in the beginning of our case plan and our story seemed disastrous to us in that moment. Just how could we
You know, she was talking about a couple of difficult interactions that she and I had or that we had together. I could not see how I in that moment could not see how he could ever go back home. It seemed impossible to me. And so we continued, you know, to parent him. We discovered sort of early on in the process that for whatever reason,
Travis (23:44.995)
Mm-hmm.
Selena Whitley (24:01.271)
in Ashley’s state that she was in, she responded a lot better to Tony, to my husband’s, interacting with her than she did with mine, which now makes so much sense, right? I was a threat. He was not. so Tony took, that’s when we really like got our footing and our foster care journey as far as like, we kind of stayed in our lane, right? Like Tony was really good at the court process.
Travis (24:11.449)
Hmm.
Travis (24:15.181)
Mm-hmm.
Selena Whitley (24:29.905)
He was really good at the visitation drop-off and pickup, like interacting with the birth moms. And so we sort of like assumed our roles and kind of stayed in our lane. And I think, like I served Ashley the best I knew how, like behind the scenes in trying to include her, trying to have Ashton make things for her where, you know,
do things like that, that she could feel part of his story. But then Tony was the one who was kind of the front man, if that makes sense. Because it was just less volatile and that was better for us. It was better for Ashton. And so I’m not sure how far you want me to go into the story because I’ll just stop right there for now and let Ashley pick up or whatever you want to do.
Travis (25:08.619)
Yeah.
Travis (25:25.753)
That’s perfect, yeah.
Ashley Darrow (25:28.618)
I’d like to say something. don’t know if you guys have another question, I can, you know, things really began to change after a few visits and such. And they did give me pictures and, you know, tried to keep me included and what was going on. And I remember the day that I just realized he’s safe.
Travis (25:33.529)
Ha ha.
Brian (25:33.599)
Go ahead.
Ashley Darrow (25:58.134)
and that he was safe, he was loved, and I could go and get well now. I could go to long-term treatment. He was good, he was thriving, he was protected, he was loved, he was cared for. And my vision of Selena definitely changed when she invited me to her church for Mother’s Day.
they had worked with Ashton to do a Mother’s Day verse and whatnot. And it was painful, but it was so beautiful. It was painful because I wasn’t with them, but it was so beautiful that, you know, they thought of me.
Travis (26:37.785)
you
Brian (26:44.021)
Wow, thanks for sharing that. So let’s keep going on down that theme of when things started to change. Selena, you said it felt impossible and that, and so what happened to have it start feeling different?
Selena Whitley (27:01.777)
Well, to be honest, Brian, it didn’t. We, I mean, I’m just being honest, okay? We…
Travis (27:05.741)
Haha, Haha.
Brian (27:06.709)
Yeah, yeah, keep. Yeah, I mean, because it’s hard. We’ve we’ve loved kids in our life too and it was like, my gosh, how are we going to let go of this child? Yeah, keep going, keep going.
Ashley Darrow (27:10.806)
Hahaha.
Travis (27:18.105)
Mmm.
Selena Whitley (27:18.757)
Yeah, so Ashley may have to clear up some of the timeline. I don’t exactly know 100 % what order of things were happening on her end, but on our end, her dad stepped into the picture. All this time defects here is looking for suitable family. They still do that in our area. If they’re a suitable family, that’s ideal, especially if…
if the parents are working their case plan, which Ashley was, they are still looking for knowing that recovery is a very long process. If they can get the child with suitable family, family’s always best. And so her dad came into the picture at some point and
He lived in Florida, we lived in Georgia. Ashley was in our area. We didn’t know anything about him, well, we didn’t really know her family at all, that he was married and they wanted Ashton to come and live with them. And Ashton, to my knowledge, had no relationship with them. We did not know him. We didn’t necessarily trust him just because we didn’t know him.
So the ICPC process was started, which here is usually a couple months long, at least. So he passed all of his background study and his home study and we met them. They came up and met Ashton and at some point along the way, I think it was about six or seven months in, which seems so short now.
Travis (29:14.723)
Mm-hmm.
Selena Whitley (29:15.101)
in terms of some other case plans that we’ve worked. But when I tell you we loved that kid, we really loved that kid. And so he ended up going to Florida with his grandfather, with Ashley’s dad. And I remember just weeping and thinking the worst outcomes, know, like, I don’t know, this guy seems like a softie. I’m totally sure he’s just gonna let Ashley move in.
Travis (29:40.825)
Thanks
Selena Whitley (29:43.483)
whatever condition she’s in, like, I just, don’t think he’s going to set firm boundaries. He of course can’t parent as good as we can parent, you know, all these things just because I couldn’t see, I still couldn’t see that success was possible. Ashley, I don’t even know if she was inpatient yet at that time. I’m not really sure the timeline, like I said, of her side.
Travis (29:46.339)
Hmm.
Travis (29:53.752)
Mm-hmm.
Selena Whitley (30:12.209)
but she wasn’t doing well and it just didn’t see, I just, couldn’t see how him being with them was better than him being with us. I’ve learned a lot since then. But when he left the courthouse with Ashley’s dad and his wife, we just wept and then we went to Cracker Barrel and drowned our sorrows and carbs. I mean, it was just, I’ll never forget that. Just my kids were at school and my husband and I just crying at the table.
Travis (30:35.481)
Yeah.
Selena Whitley (30:41.789)
just we grieved, you know, it was like something I feel like they don’t tell foster parents or they didn’t tell us is that there are placements that feel like a death when they leave and it feels like we had no promise that Ashley and I would have this this story today. For all intents and purposes Ashton was out of our lives at that point and
Travis (30:41.848)
Hmm.
Travis (30:58.809)
Mmm.
Brian (31:00.123)
Mm-hmm
Selena Whitley (31:10.011)
We had loved him so fiercely. Losing him felt like losing a child. My kids were grieving. They’d lost a sibling. We didn’t know how to process all of that. so even when he left, it still seemed impossible, just being truthful.
Brian (31:15.849)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Travis (31:15.853)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Brian (31:27.189)
Yeah, so hard. So yeah, I’m glad you’re sharing the hardness there because it is, it is, it does feel, uh, it can, or it can feel super hard, just like you described. And just for a little, everyone take a breath. Uh, I like to reach out to Cracker Barrel to see if they like to sponsor our podcast right now. We, we, we, we have a lot of foster parents who like to, uh, cope through carbs. And so Cracker Barrel.
Travis (31:27.235)
Mm-hmm.
Travis (31:30.85)
Right.
Travis (31:48.249)
That’s a good shout out.
Selena Whitley (31:48.261)
Sorry.
Travis (31:54.177)
Mm-hmm
Selena Whitley (31:55.367)
Those biscuits just hit right.
Brian (31:56.085)
Here we are. I know they are they are
Travis (31:57.695)
This biscuit’s just…
Ashley Darrow (31:59.854)
I’m the cheesy hash browns.
Brian (32:00.885)
So, All right, cracker barrel. Come on. All right. Ashley, so take us now to where you are recovering. And again, you guys have mentioned if you haven’t been in recovery, if you haven’t struggled with addiction or you don’t have someone in your life that you love that has,
Travis (32:01.625)
Come on Cracker Barrel, call out.
Brian (32:29.877)
it’s just such a long journey. It’s so much longer than you think it ought to be. So tell us, get us to the point where you are recovering, you are becoming the mom that you would, you could and hoped to be for Ashton.
Ashley Darrow (32:51.118)
Well, I got the news while I was in, I had already checked myself into inpatient rehab and I was there, but it was only, I had only been there a short time. in early, I think what empowered me to be able to go and make that move was the fact that I had seen Ashton was safe. I saw Ashton was loved. I saw Ashton,
would provide, was provided for and he had a safe home and everything. And it was like, okay, now I can go and take this time to get well. know, having, being a single parent and an addiction, and at the time I really didn’t have any safe family. My dad wasn’t in my life, so that was not even an option. So they were my support.
for him while I could go and get well. And the system was giving me a plan to follow so that I could regain custody after everything was completed. so I felt really good about going in, but then getting that news while I was in there, it really rocked me because I would much rather him stayed with Selena and Tony. And I was getting to know, like I was forming that relationship with Tony. I saw Selena was a wonderful mom and
you know, even though I may have been jealous and I, you know, I didn’t want her to be his mom. I was so thankful that he had someone like her that was fighting for him, that was caring for him when I couldn’t because the state says, you know, you, you’ve got to go, you know, and, and rightfully so, cause I did need help. And so I ended up being in an inpatient rehab center for about a year.
Travis (34:23.737)
Hmm
Travis (34:31.054)
you
Ashley Darrow (34:48.382)
very long process, very hard. It was many times I just didn’t think that I was going to make it through. My mental health was tanking. Not being there, not being able to be with my son, him being with my father, who I didn’t even have a relationship with and I really didn’t even like to be honest at the time. It was, it was really hard, but I graduated. I did my parenting class.
classes when I was in there. The whole program was really about reunifying through, you know, if you have a DCF case. So that was a very, really good community place, resource for women that were in the system. I don’t know if the place is still there anymore, but it was a really wonderful program that helped you get sober and get your kids back. So,
Ashton being with my father did I ended up you know healing I guess with him and forming a relationship and ended up you know I I saw like okay this is good but it took a while it took a while for that because I wanted him to be with Selena and Tony you know throughout that process but getting out I had to get a job
I still had to, and like Selena was saying that, some people get out and they still do whatever they do and their kids are with their family and they don’t set boundaries and all, gets messy and the kids are kinda just in that place. that I, because I didn’t know my dad very well and I didn’t want him living with him and I didn’t want him, I was gonna get my job, I was gonna get on my feet, I wanted to get.
regain full custody and that’s exactly what I did. I got out, I got my job. I did actually move in with my father and our relationship healed even more. Got my job, got the six months of income and ended up getting, going to court and petitioning and getting full custody back of Ashton. And I remember the day being in court and the same courtroom with the same people that
Ashley Darrow (37:14.06)
when they first took him and he was placed in the system, it was a very hard thing to sit and listen to. They just talked about all your bad, everything. But this time, actually, people were clapping and telling me, thank you, that they were really, not everybody fights and gets their children back and gets this far in the process.
Brian (37:39.455)
Mm-hmm.
Brian (37:43.185)
So far, if I hear a theme, it’s for both of you, what you felt like were some of the worst moments. They ended up getting redeemed and those worst moments turned out to be something, became something good. Selena, so we still haven’t heard. I as far as I know to this day, you still…
this point of view. But apparently something happened somewhere where we were like, gosh, I’m glad for this journey. I’m glad for this reunification. There were some hard moments, but somewhere along the way something in me started to change. Tell us about that.
Selena Whitley (38:33.105)
Well, we were privileged to be sort of kept in the loop. Ashley’s dad and my husband continued to communicate. So we were aware that Ashton was doing well, that Ashley was improving. I guess we maybe were let know that he had gone.
that Ashley had gotten full custody back again. And so, you know, we kind of softened like to, to that, wow, it’s success. Of course, by this time we had, who knows how many other kids come through the house and it was, our home life was chaos. But in that hearing Ashley’s celebrations gave us hope, you know, in each of the cases that came afterwards that, wow, okay, okay.
Travis (39:17.763)
Hehehe.
Travis (39:30.265)
Mm-hmm.
Selena Whitley (39:30.427)
Like this is keeping us in the game. Like she’s doing really great. Ashton’s doing really great. Just knowing that that all was part of helping restore her relationship with her dad. I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head when you use the word redeemed. Seeing Ashley’s story has been redemption lived out in front of us. know, just the whole like beauty from ashes thing just.
we saw that in real time. And so, that, that was anyway, that was being part of Ashley’s story is truly one of my life’s greatest honors, you know, to be able to walk alongside her as, and see her succeed has given me a fuller understanding of what people are capable of, a fuller understanding of
God’s plan in our lives, how God works in the world. Miracles still happen and I didn’t even, I don’t think I even knew that. Even being like a pastor’s wife. But we don’t get to see that a lot. So the reconnection piece, at that point, I don’t even remember, Ashley, you might be able to tell me more of the details, but my kids were a little bit older.
Travis (40:33.753)
you
Brian (40:34.451)
Hmm.
Brian (40:38.869)
I
Brian (40:42.719)
Yeah.
Travis (40:42.893)
Wow.
Ashley Darrow (40:43.244)
Yeah.
Brian (40:46.449)
yeah.
Selena Whitley (40:58.405)
and Tony had taken them down to Florida or Tony came by himself. Is that right? Ashley, the first time Tony was down there. Okay. For his, I believe his grandmother had passed away. so we actually had family that lived in, Ashley’s, Ashley’s town in Florida. and so when his grandmother died, he said, you know what? I’m going to see Ashton. I’m going to see if they’ll let me see him.
And I think Ashley, you may have still been living with your dad at the time. And so Tony reached out and said, I’d just love to see how you’re doing. Like, can I just come by? He was down there by himself. So because I was home with the rest of the kids. so Ashley, I’m gonna ask you a question for you, Brian. How did that go? Like that you have to take over from there because I wasn’t.
Travis (41:46.851)
Windows.
Selena Whitley (41:52.731)
I wasn’t there that night. know Tony’s perspective, but not yours.
Ashley Darrow (41:58.294)
No, I thought it was absolutely awesome. you you know you have an amazing husband. You’re an amazing person. And so is he. He’s just always so encouraging. And even then he was just encouraging my dad, Ashton, me, just always so full of good things to say and uplifting. so our interaction that night was just really good. We had dinner and I felt proud.
Cause I’m like, see, you know, I could do this. And I was so thankful and I think so much seeing him come back and just during that timeframe specifically, just I was, you know, I was home with Ashton, I was recovering. was, you know, we were healing together. We were in therapy. we were just, I was trying to figure out how to.
you know, move forward and also to amend the past and to just be a mom, not just a guilty mom or, you know, because you can’t make up for those things. You just can’t. But you can. You know, I remember the day I told Ashton, you know, I know you don’t trust me, but if you give me an opportunity, I can show you that I can be trustworthy again. And, you know, as a little guy, he was like, yeah, we can do this. You know, I’ll try to trust you,
Travis (43:17.785)
Mmm.
Ashley Darrow (43:24.68)
And so he is an amazing kid. But during that time, it just really hit home because Ashton, they sent him with a scrapbook of his time there. I know it was for him, but I felt like it was also for me because we sit down together and we look at the time that he spent and the things that he did. And, you know, I just thought, how can people
love so extravagantly. They loved my son as if he were theirs, would treat him no different than their own children, right in the same treatment, and then also supporting families of people who most of the world is like, you know, why, yeah, they have that judgment, they have that, you know, how could they do that? How could they get in themselves in this situation? But they just loved, and I just thought,
wow, like I wanna be like that. I wanna be a person like that. I wanna love that extravagantly. I wanna give and serve. mean, it just, so she says I helped her, but they helped me. Cause I’m like, I wanna be like them when I grow up. I wanna have that. I wanna be a person like that. so I think it worked both ways, Selena.
Travis (44:26.744)
Hmm.
Travis (44:40.653)
Mmm.
Travis (44:50.435)
so smooth.
Wow. It’s so much to listen to and process. And the rawness and the realness and the honesty, the vulnerability. Yeah, I’m just like, I’m just literally have to just pause to just almost take this in. I did want to say that one of the couple of things I wanted to highlight that you said to me, and then I want to, we’ll start closing this interview down, but just the role Tony played.
as a man coming into the story. a lot of times men can feel lost or what is my role or, know, my here more to mentor the kids or am I a backseat with my wife in this? But in this story of how pivotal his role was directly with Ashley and being, you know, someone that’s more neutral, maybe to her or just the way he helped inspire you or to be the better you, I mean, that is such a powerful message for men out there that are in this journey. And you know, your honesty, Selena about grief and loss, you know,
paralleling that to death, you know, and that’s so real. That’s a big part of a foster parent attrition, I think, when they’re not supported. And just then lastly, just this kind of theme of like in redemption, there’s a process, you know, like you said early on, like with Ashley, like she was kind of reinforcing the very preconceptions that you had, but give her time, give her time to be supported, to be poured into, to do what’s in her heart, which is being an amazing person.
Brian (46:15.796)
Thank
Travis (46:20.033)
is being a capable mother and a loving mother who’s inspiring others as well. So you’ve already both kind of spoken to this, but if you could sort of in either a sentence or two, the greatest lesson or the greatest gift, you know, sort of you’ve each learned from one another personally.
Selena Whitley (46:39.681)
I think the real turning point for me was when Ashley allowed Ashton to call me on Mother’s Day one year. I don’t know if you remember that Ashley. And I, it was several years later and I just thought, wow, that he would even think of me all these years later, that she would allow me to be part of that story.
that we would be spoken of.
in a nice light in their home just blew my mind. And that’s when I really learned that my son says, you know, mom, people are just people. And he says that like kind of quipishly, but there’s a lot in that, you know, people are people. And I really learned that like, there is no mom, there is no woman.
Ashley Darrow (47:27.726)
you
you
Selena Whitley (47:42.311)
who thinks, well, gosh, I’m going to take this hit of cocaine or I’m going to smoke this weed or I’m going to take this extra pill. Cause I sure hope they take my kids away one day. That seems great. I mean, no one thinks that in the moment. In the moment they think this pain is too big. I’m too alone. The pressure’s too great. I have nothing. I have nobody. I need
something I need something and that’s what’s there. And like I’m not discounting personal responsibility. We all know these actions are wrong. We all know they made the wrong choices. And I mean I would never like condone coping with life the way that that these moms cope with life. It’s not correct right. But when you look at the why like Ashley was alone she was in pain.
probably a lot of postpartum issues, physical issues. what was she supposed to do really? You know, if there was nobody there for her and the church wasn’t there for her and her family wasn’t there for her, well guess who was there for her? These friends who brought her drugs that made her feel better. And she wasn’t thinking, man, I hope somebody comes and takes stash in someday, that’d be really great. You know, that wasn’t what she was thinking. She was thinking, how do I get through the next hour?
And so when I was able to look at her story and then that just changed my perspective of every birth mom that came after, like, how did you get here? You did not plan this. How did you get to this point? If I can see the how and the why, I can deal with what’s going on right now in your life. I don’t like it. I’m still going to protect your kid from you until you get your life together, but I can give you a lot more grace.
Because I’ve never suffered like that. And I don’t know what that would be like. I really don’t. What choice would I make? I have no idea. I’ve never had to make it. So that’s way more than one or two sentences. like seeing Ashley walk all the way through that, like, and really being in it with her, like helped it changed our perspective forever on not just birth moms, but
Travis (49:57.305)
Mm-hmm.
Selena Whitley (50:11.933)
people in our community, people in the world. There’s always a why. People are people. And I don’t know, I hope that’s the answer you wanted.
Travis (50:21.273)
That is a powerful answer. was no… Ashley, what would you say in response to Selena?
Ashley Darrow (50:30.873)
What she’s shown me is just like, she probably doesn’t know, you know, well, she does now because I’ve talked about it over the years, but just watching their life, watching her and her husband and their kids and they served and they loved and they gave and they went on hikes and they loved outdoors. They were just this wholesome family. They were a picture of, you know, it gave me something to say, I want that.
I want to be like that. I want to love like that. I want to have a family like that. I want to serve like that. I want to give like that. I just think that is, I mean, in my faith and in my journey, there’s nothing greater than to walk out, you know, a life like that, to live a life like that. That doesn’t just think about itself or, you know, what it wants, but they thought about other people, strangers, strangers. To me, that was just, it still blows me away.
Brian (51:27.637)
you
Ashley Darrow (51:29.794)
that you can just give so much of yourself to someone you don’t even know. And to me, I just think they’re amazing role models and they really modeled what family and service and giving and loving look like. So they’ve given me, you know.
Brian (51:46.645)
Hmm.
Travis (51:49.305)
Wow.
Brian (51:50.911)
Well, this is a lot of beautiful story. And yeah, I really hope from what Travis started with a quote that this story, your guys’ story will help shape people into being more loving as well. So we like to close out episodes asking this question. And so I’ll let each of you give it a shot. How would you finish this sentence? What kids in foster care really need is…
Travis (52:23.235)
Ha ha ha ha.
Ashley Darrow (52:25.016)
Selena.
Brian (52:26.005)
They need Selena?
Travis (52:26.425)
That’s what they need, more selenas.
Selena Whitley (52:27.089)
Well, are you looking?
Ashley Darrow (52:28.302)
They do. They need a bunch of Salinas.
Selena Whitley (52:35.375)
Oy, are you looking for an answer specifically around the topic of our story or just my answer in general?
Travis (52:46.755)
general. Well, Brian.
Brian (52:47.253)
In general, but informed by your story.
Selena Whitley (52:55.933)
Cause I saw your question come through my email and I was like, geez, I have definitely like a pat answer for that, but that’s probably not the answer you want for today.
Selena Whitley (53:11.335)
What do kids in foster care need?
Brian (53:14.101)
Here’s this, give us your pat answer and then I want to hear what else you would want to say.
Selena Whitley (53:20.707)
Okay. yeah, well, yeah, yeah, you can edit. So I told you, this is like a, a whole nother podcast episode, but, I was a reluctant, unwilling homeschool participant, because what I feel like kids in the foster care system desperately need is access to every educational service that their school system has to offer the day they enter care.
Travis (53:22.136)
we can edit.
Travis (53:26.521)
You’re right.
Selena Whitley (53:49.455)
I think kids in the foster care system don’t need data points to prove that they need educational support. They need it, period. That’s my pat answer. Again, completely different episode. in relation to our story, I think kids in foster care need foster parents
Brian (54:01.461)
Yeah, all right.
Ashley Darrow (54:02.36)
Yeah.
Travis (54:02.531)
All right, here we go.
Brian (54:06.026)
Mm-hmm.
Selena Whitley (54:18.589)
who are supported enough that they can feel like they have the margin to give the grace that the biological families need. Meaning, if foster parents are well supported by their community, by their church, by their family.
and they feel like their load is a little bit lighter so that they can breathe and really step back and look at the situation instead of being in survival mode and fighting from crisis to crisis. They can step back and see the bigger picture and they can then in turn support reunification from a healthy standpoint where they can really.
Brian (54:57.509)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Selena Whitley (55:15.353)
seek what’s absolutely best for the child, no matter how hard it is for the foster family to pursue that.
Brian (55:22.933)
Yeah, I love that you’re wanting that so that it ultimately it’s what’s best for the child. And yeah, the kid has already had hard stuff, so it’s time for adults to say, us help you lift some of that heart off your life. Ashley, you wanna?
Travis (55:24.643)
Wow.
Brian (55:50.171)
Answer that question.
Ashley Darrow (55:52.622)
I feel like my son would be so perfect at that answer to that question. But I guess from what I’ve seen, the beauty that’s come out of his time there from just what he talks about, know, he had so many experiences they gave him. They taught him how to plant carrots and grow carrots. you know, they made him eat zucchini and they, you know, made him do, which he.
Travis (55:54.274)
Haha
Brian (56:18.129)
No.
Travis (56:18.844)
ha ha ha ha.
Brian (56:20.767)
You
Ashley Darrow (56:22.146)
He did say he spit some in the trash, Selena, one night. He’s like, I did. But just structure and home and normalcy, normalcy, just, you know, not that, cause a lot of those kids are coming out of chaotic situations and they don’t, like you said, survival mode and they don’t know one day to the next where they’re going, what’s going on. There’s no stability. So just.
Brian (56:24.337)
huh. huh. Get the napkin up. Do a fake cough.
Travis (56:41.709)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Darrow (56:49.93)
all that, those things, stability and structure and nutrition and, you know, love and education and just all the things that in a home where they may be getting neglected, those things are not as important and they’re not getting done. So that’s what I would say.
Brian (57:07.765)
Yeah, awesome. Well, I love, love, love your guys’ story. This is one of my favorite episodes and Ashley, you mentioned that Ashton would be a great person to ask that question to and he’s gonna have that opportunity. So for people listening, we’re gonna follow this podcast up with the next one is gonna be Ashley with her son Ashton and as they continue that story.
Travis (57:10.969)
Yeah.
Ashley Darrow (57:22.22)
Yay!
Travis (57:23.16)
Haha.
Brian (57:35.989)
that episode might surpass my favorite. I can’t wait for that one. So Ashley and Selena, thank you so much for sharing your story, being vulnerable and honest and showing how God can turn ashes into beauty. Thank you so much.
Travis (57:40.156)
Ha
Ahahaha.
Travis (57:58.681)
Thank you guys.
Ashley Darrow (58:00.184)
Thank you guys. Thank you, Selena.
Brian (58:01.877)
Bye. Bye now.
Selena Whitley (58:02.033)
Thank you for having us.
